Helen Jenkins, Charley Davison and the Greatest Ever Comebacks

OJ BORG 00:00:05

Hello and welcome to the Good Time Sports Club. I am OJ Borg

RAYA HUBBELL 00:00:08

And I am Raya Hubbell

OJ BORG 00:00:11

Now on the show today, we have a two time world, triathlon champion, three time Olympian. That is Helen Jenkins someone I think, you know, very well Raya

RAYA HUBBELL 00:00:19

Yeah, we love Helen got to work with her. Love to train with her. She's a little bit faster than me.

OJ BORG 00:00:25

How dare she

RAYA HUBBELL 00:00:26

Indeed and we have the British boxer on the verge of Olympic qualification after eight years away from the sport we speak to Charley Davison

OJ BORG 00:00:35

Raya. How has your week in sport been? Has it been a very sporty week for you? Do you get much done? Have you trained hard?

RAYA HUBBELL 00:00:42

It's getting back there, but I've had a bit of a hiatus with a bad back and that has finally settled. And so I am back into the groove. You'll appreciate this cause, I've lost some power on my FTP and was thinking this evening in my race that I was doing saying, “I wonder if OJ would have beaten me in this race today?”

OJ BORG 00:01:03

Well, I, I would hope so. I would hope so. I seem to have lost some power in my FTP as well. I'm being driven, mad on Strava, which is if you've not heard of it, it's a cycling way of, of mapping the rides you do. But it has a thing which is the fitness index, which works out how hard you've worked. It works out your heart rates and the length of rides. And it has some probably crazy science metrics behind it, but it has a number and the number goes up the more you train; the number goes down the less you train. The thing is though, I seem to be training more and my number seems to be going down. It is driving me mad. Raya driving me mad. I got to a high of 64. I've now dropped below 50. And I rode five times last week.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:01:38

So two things, one, you might be over-training buddy; over- stretching yourself. And two, what makes me feel a lot better is after six weeks off, my fitness number on Strava is still higher than yours.

OJ BORG 00:01:56 Ouch, that’s a deep burn! Someone call an ambulance. Right with that, let's drift beautifully into the news. Williams F1 have announced that Claire and Frank Williams will leave the team after this weekend's Italian Grand Prix. The team were taken over by U S investment company Doriliton Capital last week. It's going to be weird to see a Williams team without Frank Williams as part of it.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:02:13

Yeah. End of an era for Formula 1, indeed. In football, the Nations League is back underway with all four home nations taking part England finished third and last year year's tournament. While, Scotland earned promotion to the B tier.

OJ BORG 00:02:28

It scares me that football is back, but then we live in a new normal where all the usual seasons are all out of kilter. In snooker seven time world champion. Steve Hendry has announced he's heading back to the baize after ending his retirement, after eight years away from the sport.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:02:43

The thing I love about sneaker is the longevity that these players have

OJ BORG 00:02:49

There’s not a lot of stress on you. Not really. Yeah. And we'll be talking about sporting comebacks later in the show, but first Raya caught up with an old friend. She is one of the leading lights in British triathlon, a two time world, individual champion, who also doubled up with the team gold in 2011 Helen Jenkins was at the forefront of the sport during its biggest period of growth...

RAYA HUBBELL 00:03:19

Hey, Helen welcome to the show.

HELEN JENKINS 00:03:20

Well, thanks for having me. I'm good. Thank you.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:03:23

It's pretty strange because you and I are good friends. We've known each other for a while. We've even coached together, but we've never actually seen each other online like this. Or me interviewing you before.

HELEN JENKINS 00:03:35

It is weird when you're interviewed by someone, you know, isn't it I think because you get asked a lot of questions that, although your friends, you might not have asked that person before, because you've never had an interview setting. So it's always strange, but you always learn a lot more about each other. So that's good.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:03:51

I agree. I'm not going to ask you too many intimate questions, but hopefully our relationship means I can ask you some questions that a normal interviewer might not normally ask. But before we get into it for the sake of our listeners who don't know triathlon, as well as your I, I'd love to get a little bit background on where you're from and how you got into triathlon and your career so far.

HELEN JENKINS 00:04:12

Yeah, it's been a long career so far now. So I started off as a swimmer and loved swimming. My ambition was to go to the Olympics as a swimmer. And when I got to the kind of the age of 15, and I was like, “I am not good enough to going to the Olympics”. I'm like, “it's just not going to happen”. But I was really lucky. And I think there's a massive dropout of kind of kids around that 15, 16, who kind of lose a bit of focus. And that was definitely me, but I was introduced to triathlon at the right time. I was 15, something came along and had a chance to go to an event. And there wasn't many people there, but I won the event and I think it just kind of gave me that spark say, “Oh”, you know, I could be really good at this and kind of started training for triathlon. And I did, I did like a junior world championships or two junior year world championships. And I wasn't an amazing junior, but I just really enjoyed it. And it wasn't until I was a senior a little bit later that I kind of got onto the international scene, but I'm from South Wales. So I kind of have done pretty much all my career. I've trained and lived in South Wales and we still do now, I live with my husband - who's my coach, and we've got two children now. So life is very different to how it was when I was just training full time. But as a senior tour athlete I knew I had really good success. I was world champion two times in 2008 and 2011. I then, raced at the ITU, which is the Olympic distance sports. So I went to three Olympics in Beijing, London and Rio. London was probably the most special for me, very, you know, being a home Olympics. And then, yeah, the after Rio is about having kids. And then I was lucky enough to have Mali in 2017, a little girl, and then that I've had back problems throughout my whole career and ended up meeting a back surgery in 2018. And potentially that was the end of my career. So I had another baby that was Max in 2019. And then I was like, you know, maybe I can still compete. So I'm actually now doing the longer distance triathlon, the 70.3. And I, I was very lucky. I got a recent at the start of this year and obviously nothing else has happened since then. So, um, hopefully the aim is to do some racing at 70.3, the longer triathlon distance. So that's a bit of a jumbled, but shortish summary of what I've done.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:06:32

That is certainly a succinct way to describe your career, but the way you describe it, underplays what a legend you've been in the sport. So let me do that a little bit for you. If we go back a little bit Helen and just talk about your journey in the sport. You mentioned you started doing Olympic distance, but now you're doing longer distance. Tell me about the differences in competing those shorter distances compared to the half iron man distance that you're doing now.

HELEN JENKINS 00:07:01

So Olympic distance is about a 1500 meter swim, a 40km bike, and then a 10km run. And in general, that would take the women around two hours to complete. And the men tend to be about 10 minutes faster. So that's the distance they race the Olympics at. And there's a whole world series where you accumulate points all through the year and then race off at the end of the year as to see who becomes a world champion in the grand final. And then there's a whole other aspect of triathlon. There's the iron man distance, which is crazy. It's super long. So I'm not sure on the exact distances for the swim. I think it's 3.6 K swim hundred 80 K bike. And then you run a marathon - 3.8 K - and then you run the marathon. And then the half iron man is half of that distance. I've not quite brave enough to step up for the iron man distance yet

RAYA HUBBELL 00:07:51

Well I have no doubt that if, and when you do step up to full iron distance, you will be absolutely incredible. But your career so far has also been hit by some serious injuries. Hasn't it?

HELEN JENKINS 00:08:06

Yeah, well, it all stems from my back. So, um, I've not known for years. And I said that I had throughout my career, I had quite a lot of injuries. Um, the biggest one came, um, leading into the 2012 Olympics and I had really severe kind of knee pain. We weren't sure where it's coming from, had loads of scans or loads of doctors and nothing ever kind of, um, got sorted in. And we figured out it was coming from my back and I've got a really, um, something called spondylolisthesis where it's a slippage of kind of one of the vertebrae over the bottom of the pelvis. Really, if anyone does know their back is L five S one and caused a huge amount of nerve compression and pain that was giving me problems in my legs and kind of a lot of ongoing injury issues. But at that point in 2012, you know, I saw a back surgeon and they were like, the surgery, you need is kind of career ending. So I was like, I'm not ready to do that. And I was, I worked really well with the team around me and we knew it wasn't able to do as much training as maybe like competitors. So we had to work really sensibly, make the best out of the amount of hours of training I could do. And I managed to keep going for another four years and, um, yeah, go to another Olympics. So we managed that really well. But then after my pregnancy, um, I mean the pregnancy changes a lot of things in your body. And my back was just a little bit worse. I just wasn't able to do the same. I was in a lot of pain, like picking up our daughter who was four months old. So at that point I was like, well, I need the surgery because it's not about competing in triathlon. This is about everyday life. I want to be able to go for a run with my kid, carry a surfboard at the beach and not worry about my back slipping and not being, you know, causing pain. It was causing pain. Then I couldn't walk for a week. So we needed the surgery and the surgery went brilliantly and I didn't have a lot of pain. You know, the pain I was having day to day, which I didn't think about, like I had to roll my way out of bed or I couldn't sit in the car or stand up for a really long period of time. I could go and run a triathlon, but I couldn't do these like run like small things. So all of that pain's gone. But with the surgery, there's a massive loss of flexibility around your lower back. So I do have to be really careful and that's why when I returned to sport the sur…, “it was very unlikely”, the surgeon said, but I have done one race so far. So fingers crossed. I can do some more next year, but, but it is just a lot of management and at the moment, I'm probably still not able to train like I was before, but again, it's managing the time I have and around family and kids. So it does work really well for me at the moment, but there's been a lot of, you know, I've had some amazing highs in my career, but there's been some massive lows and dealing with kind of injury and things you can't control if you get injured because you run too much when you do something silly, which I've done before in the past as well, at least you can go, well, this is my fault. I isn't like stupid, but this is something I couldn't control. So I just did everything I could around it, like a lot of polarities and coursework and things to make myself as strong as possible. So I could cope with the demands of training.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:11:01

I mean, Helen, it's clear that you've had an incredible least successful career in the sport, but it's not always been straightforward for you. Tell me what you would say is your most frustrating moment, but in contrast what your highlight has been in your career so far,

HELEN JENKINS 00:11:17

Do you know, the lowest moment was probably the whole buildup to London 2012 because I was in, you know, I was in fantastic shape. I'd won the world championships the year before it, I started the year brilliantly, but there were so many little niggles and things that were kind of going wrong, but I just ignored them because it was the London Olympics is what I dreamed about for years. So, um, when I got really injured, it was, I mean, it was really bad. I couldn't, you know, for the first few weeks I couldn't swim. It was just, it was just awful. I was in so much pain. So the emotional stress of getting through kind of three months of being able to prepare for the biggest event in my life, um, I think I cried every day. It was just horrific and Mark my husband and my coach, he was going through it with me as well and I literally wouldn't have got through that race without him because he kind of literally picks me up and put me out the door training some days. It was such a dark period. I'm really proud of it now. And like, I wouldn't say the race was negative cause the race was amazing. I didn't perform as I wanted to, but the crowd that that was brilliant. So I could never not be nice about the race, but the period leading up to it before was really, really tough.

And the high, I think there's been several like winning worlds and things, but I think one of the biggest high for me was when I qualified for Rio in 2016, because I'd had a really poor 2015 and I didn't really have any good results. I was really thinking about quitting Mark my husband's suffers with the clotting disorder, which causes blood clots and he had one in 2015 and that was really stressful, our dog was really sick. So it was just, there was a number of things. I think I was almost at the point of quitting in 2015, I thought, no, I've got to give it one more shot to try and get to the Olympics. And I missed the selection in 2015 and then there was one more selection in 2016 and I won the selection race. And I remember standing on top of the podium and they gave him a medal and the series leader trophy. And I, I literally, I, I don't think I hadn't verbalized or even thought in my head. I never thought I'd do that again. I didn't actually think I'd stand on top of the podium again after, you know, these years and, and the 2012 sort of thing. So I'd been on the podium, but to stand on top of it. And when in such a, it was, you know, it was a really dominant performance. I was like, I did that. So that for me is like, “Oh my God, I'm actually, I actually did something I never thought I'd do again”. So I think that was definitely a yeah, massive high

RAYA HUBBELL 00:13:54

An absolute high indeed triple Olympian, double world champion. You then get your back sorted. You take some time out to have your kids and spend time with them. Then you decide actually my success so far, maybe isn't enough. Maybe I could do a little bit more. Maybe I'll try my hand at a longer distance…

HELEN JENKINS 00:14:15

And I think if you'd asked me when I was pregnant with Max, it definitely would have been a, no, I'm not doing this again because we had a few problems during the pregnancy. I started bleeding at 16 weeks and that really scared me. And you know, it happens for a lot of people. There was nothing wrong, but I think I, I really, I just exercised. I trained a little bit when I was pregnant with Mali, but with Max I exercised, I did maybe 30 to 40 minutes of something every day. It was. And I mean, it might sound a lot for someone who's pregnant, but when you’re used to training 25 plus hours a week, it's, it's really not. So, then training after having not training, I just got back on the bike and started exercising and I was really enjoying it. And I was actually doing a lot better than I thought. And I was like, no, maybe I've got a chance, but, um, I think it's more come from, I love swim, bike and run. And even if I wasn't competing, I would still swim, bike and run. So I thought, well, I may as well try competing as well. It's I think when I was doing Olympic distance, it's this massive focus and desire to be like an Olympic champion to win certain things. Whereas, and then, yeah, sure. I still want to win races. I'd love to go and win a 70.3, but this just fits so well with what I'm doing at the moment. Like it fits around what I'm doing with the kids. I'm I love being out there, you know, I love competing. I love training. So it's really just fitting in with what I'd be doing anyway. I mean, there's times it's hard, especially if you've had sleepless nights with the kids and you think, Oh, I really want to go and ride before I was today. Cause I don't have to, but I, I do love having a goal and, and it, and a motivation to get out there training. So it's um, yeah, I don't know if it's so much about, you know, I'd love to kind of get out there and come and compete at the highest level within 70.3. But at the moment for me, it's just, I'd be doing it anyway. So let's just see where it goes. It's still, it's still a bit of an unknown. I'm quite enjoying that.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:16:13

How have you found the mental side of lockdown? Because you did one event as a pro in the long distance and then everything shut down and you, I think it was Dubai, you did, which was like two weeks before lockdown and then everything just shut down and life changed. So how have you changed your goals, your mindset, the way you work? Cause I know you guys have got two little kids at home and your coach is also your husband. So often normally when you're out on your bike, you can be out with him, but everything has to be different.

HELEN JENKINS 00:16:45

Yeah, it was really, I mean, I was really, really lucky. I got Dubai in because I wasn't, I don't know if I was a hundred percent ready for the race, but I was like, well it's now or never, I may as well do it. I'm so glad I actually did it. But yeah, we were lucky. I mean the world changed so quickly after that event and like, it doesn't seem real now that I was in another country competing in close proximity to lots of people. But yeah, a lot of that has been tough and I say, I do work. I do work better when there's a goal. And I found it really hard to kind of have a goal to fix on at the moment because any race is changing. And I do have a family to think about is I can't just kind of up and leave and then quarantine for two weeks when I come back, if something changes because it doesn't just affect me, it affects, you know, my family, um, my kids, what they're doing. So we don't want to be stuck in the house for two weeks again, like we were. So there's a lot to think about. And I think I've just tried to manage training around, you know, we all need to come out of in a happy, healthy place as happy and healthy, like mentally as well as you can. So it's really been adapting like week by week to how we're all doing. And some days, you know, the kids is very unusual for the kids not to see other people at the start. So if they needed a bit more attention over those times, then, then that's what would happen. So it's just, I think it's been different for everyone hasn't it? Like how they've managed to cope with, what they're doing.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:18:11

And has lockdown, changed your perspective on racing. Have you got races lined up for, for next year or are we going to see what happens with training and also with the new coaching business?

HELEN JENKINS 00:18:25

Yeah, it's been, a funny sort of time it's, I mean, you it's really hard to actually plan anything for next year, but I mean, once we know a bit of what's happening and races are coming out, I'll definitely make a few plans of what I'm going to do and, and commit to because yeah, I think that was one of the aims of, of kind of competing again, was so that we could go as a family like me and Mark travelled around the world a lot. So I'd love to be able to kind of next year take the kids. Like if Dubai was on we’ll take the kids, we'll all go kind of, they get to watch a bit of the race, not that they're going to be that interest. They're probably more interested in playing in the sea or the pool, but that's why one of my, sort of almost that's one of my goals, so we can all go to a race together. So that has been, yeah, I mean, and, and life is changing and I think I've got less years left competing than I have. So that's been part of the move towards our coach in business as well. Like my husband's coached me for years. He coaches several age group athletes as well. We've worked with Raya in the past too. So it's, it's just moving forward and kind of taking that next step as well. We've had a good, you know, it's, I think a lot of time has given everyone a lot of thinking time and, and you actually have to think about kind of what's coming next, what you're going to do. And yeah, it's, it's been really interesting and reflective as well.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:19:35

Helen, it's been great having you on the show best of luck with your career going forward and in particular next season. Thank you.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:19:47

Thank you. Raya thanks.

OJ BORG 00:19:51

Raya Hubbell there talking to Helen Jenkins. as she's so inspirational. Raya so inspirational in fact, all triathletes are inspirational because you've gotta be good at so much

RAYA HUBBELL 00:20:00

Or you've never been able to master one. So you spread the risk across three, you know, either way glass, half full half, half empty kind of mentality. What I love about Helen though is how understated she is. She's arguably one of the most successful female triathletes athletes of all time and just somehow just takes it in her stride. And it's just super chilled, loves training at home in Wales and, and sort of, and she's, she's awesome.

OJ BORG 00:20:27

She is very much awesome. In fact, anybody who does a triathlon is awesome. You're awesome. Raya. Of the triathlons I've done. I was very excited. The reason I got into cycling was triathlons cause I bought a road bike for that. And in my first triathlon, my friend, I think I've told you this story. You've seen the pictures. In fact, if you haven't, we'll stick it out. We'll stick it out on our Twitter and on our Instagram, my mate racked my bike and I'd done the lottery the night before. So I was late there and me and my mate had a bet who could get round to this Olympic distance triathlon the quickest. So it was one and a half kilometers swimming? Isn't it. One half time to swim 1.5km swim, then 40km the bike than a 10km run. So I trained really hard. It's possibly the slimmest I've looked in the past decade. People used to say to me, “Whoa!”, I felt hot for a bit. I made the mistake of having, I got the lottery, bought me a couple of custom made suits at that point, which I've never fitted into ever again since the point being my mate racked my bike. I turn up and they closed the transition early. So I didn't get a chance to check my kit. Anyway, we start from the swim about the swim cause I've always been a good swimmer. I get out, I do the bike ride in a place called Tatton Park. And the end of it is I was coming down on the final descent of this little Hill, not a steep Hill, but it was wind behind me fast and they’d boarded off the cattle grids. So I'm going over the final cattle before I turned back into transition. I pulled back. Next thing I know. I wake up in the back of an ambulance. My wheel span off the front of it, head on the floor, my wife and pardon the expression here. Cause she was there with his wife. Um, she saw my bike go past with my helmet full of blood. And she was like, where's the guy that belongs to. And she found me in the back of an ambulance and yes, but since then, I've always loved triathlons. And I think the feeling you get when you complete one is just this weird, this weird everything's empty, but a sense of elation.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:22:14

Um, not to delve too much into our relationship OJ but some time ago you mentioned to me that you had a dream about me and you doing a triathlon. And I think this is a good time to bring that dream up and maybe turn it into a fruition.

OJ BORG 00:22:32

I'm into it. Listen, I'm totally into it. Are we talking about triathlon or an iron man?

RAYA HUBBELL 00:22:37

Iron man.

OJ BORG 00:22:38

Okay. I'm into it. I'm into it. Seriously. Let's let another time. If you show me the one, tell me how to get there and I'm into it. My knees will fall off. It'll probably end me, but I love the idea of completing it. Love the idea. Completely

RAYA HUBBELL 00:22:49

Awesome challenge accepted. I'm going to get you registered and we're going to get Mark to document the whole thing and it's going to be great.

OJ BORG 00:22:56

Sounds good. Let's talk about more sporting comebacks. This is about Charley Davison. She was a high level boxer in 2012. She retired, in the intervening time she had three kids, which I think Raya, you'll agree with me after this school holiday with the kids off. I feel that's almost the harder career, the harder career over the past eight years. Anyway, she is back and she is one fight away from Olympic qualification.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:23:27

Charley you and I have just got back from dropping the kids off from school on their first day haven't we?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:23:30

I have Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's a rainy day as though, as soon as school starts as a rainy day, always typical. Every time they go to school is rain and it's one of those things having had the most amazing summer. And then the minute the kids want to look their and all dolled up for their first day at school, in their uniforms with their Harold done pours down with rain and they're like drown rats by the time

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:23:54

That's true. I straightened my girl’s hair as well. Cause she's got a bit of a curl to her hair. So I straighted it, she's going back into school and it's probably completely gone back to curly.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:24:04

But we tried! These moments of being a super proud parent and the children looking mega presentable. Don't you? I did my stepdaughter's hair in what I call battle braids or power plaits. The two braids on the side. In fact I'm pretty sure I've seen you Boxing

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:24:23

I hate it, god. It's not like moving around, but yeah, I do prefer it like that.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:24:27

Me too. I've got a lot of hair, so I wear it the same way when I'm competing in triathlons. It's the only way I can get my hair under my helmet.

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:24:36

Right.

RAYA HUBELL 00:24:36

For all the guys who don't have these sorts of problems with competition, crazy hair. Um, um, I'm sure they're all turning off right now. So let's delve straight into our first question about you. Charley in your sport. Boxing is just a kick-butt sport. You've gotta be mega tough, both physically and mentally to do what you do. So how on earth did you get into it?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:24:58

Well, I think my dad always said that he wanted as his eldest child, he wanted a boy and I was the first child. I was a girl, so I was a bit of a tomboy and he used to train me at home on the pad you take on the pads used to train. It was just what's Boxing with him. And then from then onwards, I've just continued it. And I have got other brothers, but I'm like I say, being the oldest, he wanted a boy. I think we was just close and he just got me into Boxing.

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:25:23

Did that relationship with your dad grow do you think? Because you weren't able to join any of the gyms at your age because you were a girl?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:25:30

That's correct. I went down to my local gym and them sort of times you weren't allowed to box. Girls weren't really known to box, I was turned away, but then I went back a year later and they did have me. They let me like basically have a trial train down there and I trained just as well as the men, just as well as the boys. So they were really happy and they were like, yeah, come along and I was the only girl there, but I enjoyed it cause I was a tomboy and I just didn't think anything different. So that was really good.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:25:54

Was boxing the love of your dad's to start with? Is that how you came to get into it or did you stumble across it, fall in love with it and he helped you develop a nurture a your love for it?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:26:04

Yeah, that's great. My dad always had a love for the sport. He's always watched that. We've always seen on the telly cause he's a fishermen. Every time he'd come back, he'd ask my mum to take the box and matches and it's come home. We'd watch it together. He’s always been into Boxing and it just got me into it and I'm fortunate. I actually like it. So I tried it and went on the pads. And ever since then, I've not stopped.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:26:23

You were pretty young at this point. How do you go from sparring with your dad in your living room through to Olympic qualifiers?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:26:29

It's been, it's been hard time, just been good times, but I was eight years old when I started. Um, and ever since then, I've had love for the sport, went to the gym, I've won national titles, my one European title, European gold, well silver as a youth and then I had time off to have my oldest son, 2012. And then I come back, fought for the national title again. And I won that T at 54 kilograms, went up to Sheffield for trials and they said 54 is not Olympic weight. So I said, okay, then I'll get down to 51. And because I'm a quite big for the weight, they didn't think it'd be possible. But I showed them that I could do it. And I really trained hard and really persistent. I wanted that spot and from then onwards, they’ve had faith in me and they've really helped me push me and my coach, um, at home here, John Cremin, he really helped me and just like told them what she is. She's good enough for that spot and just give a lot of faith in it. And they did. And I'm really happy they have, because if they would have turned me away and said that you're not going to make the weight, you're too big. I wouldn't be in this position. Now if they would have had faith for me, I wouldn't be here now. So I'm really grateful

RAYA HUBBELL 00:27:34

There aren't many of us in this world who are 50 kilograms. It's pretty lightweight. How, how tall of you? You don't mind me asking?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:27:39

Five foot eight

RAYA HUBBELL 00:27:42

So I'm five, three and I race at 55 kilograms. I know far too well how difficult it is to stay down at race, weight. Well, you know, like everyone, I love my food. I like indulging. Yes there's chocolate…

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:27:59

Yeah chocolate’s my downfall

RAYA HUBBELL 00:28:02

But I'm also a savoury girl. Love my crisps, pizza are definitely my thing. So for you to be at 51 kilos and standing five foot eight tall, the regime you must follow must be extreme.

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:28:11

Basically when we got no competitions, we were allowed to walk around 5% over our boxing weight. So for me, 5% over 51, kilograms is 53.6 and I find it easy to hold around 54. I hold around and they're happy with that and obviously when it comes up to competition, you have so much time to get down and you've got the nutritionist at GB to help you, but you have to get into your own mind what I can eat portion size. Cause even though it's healthy food, you've eaten, the portion size still has to be a certain size and you have to watch, you have to cut things out for me. It's just cut and I look and say chocolate, anything that I indulge in like fast foods, crisp chocolate, sweet. I've cut all that out and I'm absolutely fine. I could manage it just by training and normally drinking plenty of fluids, water, fruit. I really enjoy my fruit and vegetables anyway, but those are fruit, veg, drink loads of water, three meals a day. So it's just being sensible with the portions. Like I say, the nutrition is, the chef is really good. Really helpful. If you need anything, energy wise if you need any help with portion sizes. They're always there to help. We've always got them, people behind me to help me.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:29:18

Yeah. I miss my days of being a power athlete where portion control is a lot easier. Nowadays, as an endurance athlete, I have to eat thousands and thousand calories a day and finding that balance is incredibly hard. So major kudos to you for your focus to keep a lean weight like that, but choosing to fight at this weight has meant that you are now very in the running for the Olympics. Were you at this point before your career break, which you took to have your children or has this Olympic hopeful bent into your return?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:29:52

No, I'm basically I had to fight for my spot. So, up Sheffield they have a few people at the certain way so that my weight there was quite a few girls at 51 kilos. You have to basically go against each other for select trials. And we went to America. That was what a test for me. First time I've been away sparring different girls around different athletes and I've done really well there held my own. I was, I was holding the weight well. There's so many tests I had to, I had to prove to them that I could do, um, as well as being away from the children. Um, there's so many different things, mentally, physically. I had to prove to them. Yeah, we can do it. I'm the right weight for this. And then after, like I say, the national total at 54 kilos after that, um, I then went up there and got lower than 54. Went up to America, proves to them that it could be up there against the best. And like training was the best and perform how everyone else is. And then that's when they said they went away and they chose who they wanted at a certain weights. So yeah, it was just like from training to perform it in the rings, everything they look at everything and just then pick from one from each way

RAYA HUBBELL 00:30:59

You took seven years out to bring up your children. How was it getting back into the sports? Both in terms of, well, the politics around getting back into sport, but also your mindset. That's a long time to get of.

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:31:12

Yeah, it is really mentally, physically, mentally. It was just, “can I leave my children?” “Can I go up to Sheffield and leave them at home with their dad?” I felt bad because I was putting the pressure on him, like having to fulltime watch the children when he's used to full time work. And he works at an Indian restaurant. So he's used to being at work full time. I was at home with the children. He was having to do school runs, everything that I had to do, he was doing. But do you know what he's, we've always been 50/50 helped each other. He's always been hands on. So I didn't have that when I was in Shepard that's face time and I could see there was all happy and he really pushed me and say that this is a once in a lifetime for you. You've had three children take it while you can grab it with both hands on here. The children are just doing what they're doing. They're going to school and we really helped each other. So I think if we didn't have him, we'll have all the support I have done have such a good partner mentally. I think I would have struggled a little bit more than I am. I'm in a really good place now I'm strong mentally, physically. I think I was just, like I say, get back into the training and the aches, the pains, you have to push through that, but I've always used to do that. I never really moaned in the gym. I think if you haven't pushed yourself, if you're not eating and stuff, you haven't pushed yourself hard enough, no pain, no gain, as they say. So I think mentally, physically, I am really in the best shape possible at the minute.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:32:27

I'm a true believer that there is power and strength that you develop after becoming a mum. And that's what takes you to the next level when we have kids, whereas women change, there are some incredible examples of women who have come back from post pregnancy and childbirth who are faster, better, stronger, more determined, .

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:32:46

Because you've overcome these… I like being a mom. It's just a next level that you've got these three children that depend on you. You have to show them the way you've set an example. I think that's what I'm doing. I think if I, in the future, if it doesn't work out, if this doesn't work out, I gave it my all, I gave it a shot and I can explain to them that they understand that what I'm doing. Um, I'm not just doing it. This for me is for them as well for my children. And we could have a brilliant future if I did get gold, like, it'd be amazing. So for me as a women experience, I'm still gaining experience. Even if it does go to Mark, which I'm hoping it does, but if it doesn't go to what I want, then I still press for it. So I can't have no doubt

RAYA HUBBELL 00:33:21

Your children are going to be so proud of you purely down to your commitment and dedication that you've applied to the sport. You were one win away from Olympic selection when the lockdown happened. So what's happening now in terms of selection and the new process?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:33:36

Well, they, postponed it so they are going to reschedule it. I'm not sure of what month, I’m hoping it’s the same sort of time, so February, March, and like you said, I've got one more bout to qualify. If I went that route, then I've qualified for the Olympics. The Olympic should still be going ahead July and I'm hoping the qualifiers are still in London cause London, that's not too far from me. It's like two hours drive. So it's nice for it to be low. Cool. and I'm hoping, like I say, fingers crossed that we can still, I can still, because all my family on their day they've got cancelled. I'd had my first fight against the Irish girl. I was then going for my recovery. I was on my recovery at the ice bath. and then they come in and their like “oh it’s been cancelled” and I was like, “no!” And I was fighting not the next day, but the day after. And I was like, “Oh, I'm so geared up to fight again”. When I was in that, that mindset, the mind frame was like, it's such a good place. And then they were like, Oh, it's been cancelled. And I was like, no, but then now it's even more training for me because I haven't long been up Sheffield. I was so strong with like a few months of strength conditioning, all the sparring and experience but I can get so much more now behind me. So it's a good thing for me.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:34:43

I think it’s your mindset, as an athlete, this time over lockdown has been the making and breaking of some athletes that you've used this time to reevaluate and understand what you want to achieve going forward. By the time Tokyo rolls around this break may just have been the training time that you've needed.

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:35:00

Definitely. I think, um, I've got one good few months now to, like I said, be up there. Um, I've only boxed at 51kg once. So I've got all these, um, different times I can make the way maybe even more comfortable cause I was making the way so easy or they were really shocked like, how would you make the weight so easy, so big for the way you look tool. But, I think it's just, you have to be, you have to think positive and nothing, good things happen. If you think positive and you have to everything, you diet you train and you have to think positive, you can't go in there and think negative. Cause I think it's just, it's just not right. And I think when I boxed it, the Europeans I was so positive I thought I can't lose this. So I just went in there full a hundred percent focused and Yeah, I did really well. So hopefully, um, when March sort of time comes and I can perform again against the Polish girl, um, hopefully I'll come out on top.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:35:47

Well, we have everything crossed for you. You're uh, an incredibly positive person. I've seen that. You've also been willing to be this way very publicly and openly Team GB recently published an open letter that you wrote to yourself about making it and the attitude that you need to have for a comeback like this. I mean, this is hugely inspiring stuff. What made you decide to publish this and be that open and honest as well as being that inspiration to others?

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:36:14

Yeah. Well I just think there will be other girls, other women out there that will think they can't do anything after having children, but prove that you can, if you put your mind to anything, you can do anything you want. I didn't really have goals that I couldn't do it. It was just like I say, the fault of leaving the free children behind and obviously certain things, but you put your mind to it. You have good people behind you have a good background and I think you can do anything you want and I feel free now. And hopefully once the Olympics come and I have that medal round my neck, I’ll inspire other women to do it so. That’s brilliant

RAYA HUBBELL 00:36:45

That's just awesome. I think it's fair to say that we here at the Good Time Sports Club podcast are totally inspired by you and we all have our fingers and toes crossed for your upcoming selection about this March, the Olympic selection. Charley thank you so much for joining us today.

CHARLEY DAVISON 00:37:01

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you.

OJ BORG 00:37:08

Charley Davison there talking to Raya Hubbell. She’s inspirational, inspirational

RAYA HUBBELL 00:37:13

It was one of those weeks where I felt almost not worthy with the women that I was interviewing. It was just so awesome. Two breaks from professional sport, pumping out children and coming back better than ever. I mean, it's, it's mind blowing and I love them both.

OJ BORG 00:37:32

I love the phrase, pumping out children love that phrase. We don't have a quiz this week, but instead we are going to look, as we've heard from, two come back stories, we're going to do the best sporting comebacks. We have a series of names now of sports. People who have retired or gone away from the spot and then come back, have they come back better? Well, we're about to find out Mr. Payne himself. Mark Payne our producer, our glorious leader is going to read the list and Raya and myself, we are going to rate them on comeback ability. So Mark where are we starting? Who are we starting with?

MARK PAYNE 00:38:03

Okay. Let's start with Frank Mir so Frank Mir was the UFC heavyweight champion in 2004, went out for riding. His motorbike got hit by a truck, broke his femur, tore his knee ligaments, lost his title, came back two years later. What I need to return and ended up fighting for the world championship three more times. So where'd you rate that one?

OJ BORG 00:38:22

You go first Raya

RAYA HUBBELL 00:38:25

Well, first of all, to be able to survive, being hit by a truck, requires fitness in the first place and also the toughness. Um, first physically, mentally that UFC players, uh, fighters have is absolutely remarkable. I find it less impressive because of this sort of physical stature that they have to survive that crash.

OJ BORG 00:38:54

Exactly that, exactly that! I saw Frank Mir. He was one of the original fighters. He's been around forever, you know, absolutely been around for ever. You know, he's war torn. He was good. He beat bigger guys, you know, and he's taken a fair amount of punishment. I almost feel that him getting hit by a truck, it's almost less damage. You would have taken them. We'll have some of the fights that I've seen a person in the past. Frank Mir don't at me if you've heard this, but I don't think, I don't think it's the best comeback ability also because it never came back and won a title that I know of. And I did work in MMA for a while….

MARK PAYNE 00:39:22

Yeah, he won an interim title but never won a full heavyweight title. But yeah, I mean, I'm not going to tell him that he, uh, he's he's not right at the top of my list cause he would crush me like a bug.

OJ BORG 00:39:33

He would, he would

RAYA HUBBELL 00:39:34

we need to take, give him props for sure.

OJ BORG 00:39:35

Yeah. I'm going to give him just a five. I'm going to start off with a five only because I mean, he was a great fighter. He was the first, the big guys with, with skills. So I'm going to give him a five.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:39:44

I'm going to give them a six purely, because that means you gave him a lower score with more trouble.

OJ BORG 00:39:52

Did I say 5? I meant 10? Nah, I’ll stay with the five, who's next Mark?

MARK PAYNE 00:39:54

Okay. So if we're going to talk about surprising comebacks, I think this one quite high on the list. When people talk about cycling and they talk about Greg LeMond what you always hear is the eight second time gap and him battling Hinault in the mountains. What you don't hear about his story is the year after he won his first tour. So he makes his big success; in 87 he breaks his wrist. While he's out convalescing he goes for a Turkey hunt, get shot in the back, accidentally by his brother-in-law gets riddled with 60 pellets loses 65% of his blood. Happens to be rescued by an air ambulance that is just flying past. Otherwise he wouldn't have survived. Nearly dies, goes back to this Tour De France and wins it twice more. It's I mean, it's pretty impressive.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:40:41

This sounds more like a soap opera as opposed to a sporting legend story.

OJ BORG 00:40:47

Talking about cyclist about a blood transfusion. Oh, what are you saying about Greg, Mark wow! I’m going to say, I mean the comeback ability is amazing. So, well, let's start at 10 and I'm going to deduct some points. Listen. My thinking is basically, I'm not a fan of hunting. Therefore he loses four points immediately six out of 10, for me,

RAYA HUBBELL 00:41:11

Kind of exactly where I was going to go with that. If you have got a brother-in-law who dislikes you that much, I highly recommend that going shooting together. It's probably not the sort of thing you should do just before a big competition.

OJ BORG 00:41:24

True. True. And don't break your wrist in the first place. We're saying six out of 10. I mean, this is, I almost, almost feel terrible for what I'm saying here. We're going to six out of 10, six, 10. Let's give him one more. Cause he won two Tours let's say seven out of 10.

MARK PAYNE 00:41:37

I would say in his defense he's famously one of the strongest dopers in the, in the whole peloton

OJ BORG 00:41:42

Which was to falling out between, which was the falling out between him and Armstrong really? I mean, Armstrong crushed his bike brand.

MARK PAYNE 00:41:48

Yeah. But you were more you're right. If you're going to get rid of someone dirt while they're in the woods and get their back turned.

OJ BORG 00:41:56

Not like Dave Brailsford, he'll stab you in the front, which apparently, which is a good thing though, but that's what you want. You want somebody to stop you in the front of they're going to do it. Yeah. Look into my eyes as you do.

MARK PAYNE 00:42:04

Okay. Next on the list. We've got George Foreman. One of the most successful boxers of all time. Some of the biggest fights you've ever seen. He won gold in the 1968 Olympics turned pro in 69, world champion by 73, lost to Ali in the rumble in the jungle. A couple more years at the top level, then decided to take time out to become a Christian minister in 1977 and took a massive 10 year convalescence and career break. Came back in 1987, became world champion in 1994 at the age of 45 and then defended the title and carry on fighting until he was called time on his career in 1994 at the age of 48

OJ BORG 00:42:42

George Foreman Raya.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:42:43

I mean, if you think about some of the most famous success movies produced they are about boxers, and there's a reason for that, how so many boxers their career last few years, because of the hits that they take and, and what that can do to them. So for George to be able to have a career spanning so many years and also finding faith in that time, I mean, that's just pretty insane. Come back if he, if you asked me.

OJ BORG 00:43:14

Yeah, I agree with you. Um, so I am going to say the comeback is seven, but he gets an extra point for coming up with the lean green grilling machines, which changed my life for a bit. Everyone had one, I made mean paninis in those, I think I put weight on, cause I used to make pesto paninis and with cheese then actually helped me at all.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:43:30

I thought you were supposed to make chicken with them?

OJ BORG 00:43:33

I’m a vegetarian! It never really worked for me. So I just made paninis in them but anyway. It's an eight out of 10.

MARK PAYNE 00:43:39

Fair enough. And then we go on to Michael Jordan, arguably one of the greatest sports stars of all time in any sport and retired in 1993, for what we can only describe as an ill advised trip into baseball, didn't really make a success of it won three straight titles prior to that period with the Chicago Bulls and then had two years out playing baseball returning 1995, won three more titles between 96 and 98 ending as the greatest player undisputed of all time

OJ BORG 00:44:10

Arguably should have won more titles as well. If you've watched the last dance, did you see the lifestyle? I mean, the thing is I was young. I was, I was a Chicago Bulls fan, so I played a lot of basketball when I was younger, played at fairly high level, loved it and was a Bulls fan, but I was a Bulls fan, not for Michael Jordan. I was a Bulls fan for Dennis Rodman. I loved his game. I love that ain't coming near my basket. I loved that. The hair, the wildness. I loved everything about him. I styled my game on it. I didn't, I never took the ball to the hoop, but nobody was coming into my house. But watching The Last Dance, you realise not just how great a player Michael Jordan was, but how focused he was, how in the early years, he was prepared to shed friends to drill on people.

MARK PAYNE 00:44:50

He was, yeah, he was not an easy person to be around, but that drove him and the team on to bigger things. He took one of the, you know, the worst franchise in basketball to be one of the best. The reason he took the time out that you see from, from the documentary is because the intense pressure was under. His dad died and he just couldn't hack it anymore. And he thought, I'm not going to take any of this pressure while I was in baseball. But to come back to step back into that limelight, to do all again, for me, full marks 10 out of 10. You go away the biggest player in the sport. You come back and become even better.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:45:22

I agree to a certain point, but at the same time basketball was what he knew. It was his main talent. He was so incredibly good at it. And I get the pressure point. You need to take a time out, but the baseball thing was, it was a minor fail. In my opinion, it was a minor fail. So kudos for going back to what you need. That's why we're so talented because basketball was his baby. It was his, it was his passion. It was, it was his everything really. Um, and it's his return that I'm impressed with rather than the baseball timeout.

OJ BORG 00:45:55

So what you're giving him your bounce back ability eight, ah, eight on the comeback ability. So I'm going full 10, but I think that's me just fanboying slowly.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:46:03

Yeah. I think for me, I kind of see it as less of a career comeback and more of a mid career sabbatical.

OJ BORG 00:46:13

It’s the same thing? George Foreman took timeout to create a grilling machine.

MARK PAYNE 00:46:17

He took ten years out in the prime of his career.

OJ BORG 00:46:21

Greg LeMond took time out to get his blood changed. What are we saying here? He went on a hunting trip?

MARK PAYNE 00:46:24

Okay. Next Monica Seles, tennis. Obviously one of the biggest stars in the sport when she was number one in the world in 91-92, incredibly she'd won eight grand slams before the age of 20, and then had this incredible moment where she was stabbed in the back on court by a crazy Steffi Graf fan in 1993, and basically said, she'd never played tennis in Germany, completely took a gap from the sport for three years, and then came back and won the Australian open

OJ BORG 00:46:56

10 out of 10 for me. And I'll tell you why. To come back and be successful still, but not to be mentally scarred, still surrounded by people, unbelievable strength of character and mind.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:47:07

Yep. A hundred percent. I mean, you would expect to get stabbed in gang warfare, not at a professional tennis tournament. So to be in that environment where you're safe, it is all you've ever known. It is where you feel the most confident because it is your profession. You mentally could lose so much from that sort of experience. And she's come back and I mean, look at like, look at Tonya Harding. They made a whole movie out of it for almost exact same, exactly the same thing. Although it wasn't a crazed fan, but what it was, um, you know, a hundred percent, 10 out of 10, she is incredible.

OJ BORG 00:47:45

Just, just on yeah. 10 out of 10, 10 out of 10 for Monica Seles just on Tonya Harding. If you've seen the film I, Tonya, which I watched in the play, one of the best films I've ever seen, possibly one of the best sports films I've ever seen, I've ever seen it's up there in the top two ice skating films I've ever seen possibly better than blades of glory. And it made me really angry. It made me really angry on behalf of Tonya Harding of, of what she had to suffer and what she went through.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:48:09

It was an excellent movie depicting a rather weird story incredibly well.

MARK PAYNE 00:48:15

And next on the list, Niki Lauda. now Niki Lauda you can argue should be on this list twice. Famously had a huge accident in 1975 at the Nurburgring left with lots of burns all over his body. Rescued by his rivals, returns the same year, I think he only missed one or two races as close to it. And it just lost out to James Hunt who won the title. The next year wins, retired three years later in 1979, three years out of the sport came back in 1982 and won his final title in 1984 by half a point in the closest contest of all time against Alain Prost. One of the greatest ever.

OJ BORG 00:48:53

Niki what was his surname?

MARK PAYNE 00:48:59

Lauda?

OJ BORG 00:49:00

Niki what was his surname? Sorry, go on Raya. You go first. I mean, I know where I'm going to pitch this.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:49:10

I mean, there's injuries. And then there is what you see in A&E with extensive burns your body, the cardiovascular impact that that's going to have on you is nothing short of remarkable. I think this is huge props, especially taking the time out and coming back again. Post-injury and then a break. I don't know. I'm giving us a nine. I think,

OJ BORG 00:49:38

I agree with you. It's a nine it's a nine for me. I mean also the fact that has come back from being disowned by his family in the first place. Cause he was the heir to a lot of money that he had to get rid of to pursue this career. I mean, again, with all of these people, I guess, to be at the top of any sport, you need incredible mental toughness, but to come back and again, with the mental scars to go with the physical scars, to get into cars at the time, which were, they were not safe. People were dying. These were not, it's not like Formula One nowadays where injuries are unbelievably rare, considering the speeds that travelling out there. These were people who were on the raggedy edge all at the time. And that was the draw for a lot of people watching it to get back in and do it again is, I mean, it's, it's almost pathological, isn't it, but, uh, yeah, nine out of 10 for me on, on the comeback ability scale.

MARK PAYNE 00:50:22

Fantastic, and then to round up our list Beth Hamilton now you might not know the name. I'm sure you remember the story. She was 13 years old when a tiger shark took her arm while she was out surfing, took a big chunk out of our board and pulled her arm with her. Horrific injuries. Again, lucky to survive, but more incredibly, one month later, she was back surfing. Four years later, she turned pro and won a national title in process. And in 2017 she was inducted into the surfing hall of fame.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:50:52

Yeah. And it's, it's the episode of women empowerment. I that the time it takes to recover from losing a limb is infinitely longer than it took for her to come back. So the ability for her body to recover, but also her to get over fear because you go back straight into the water with that shark attack to you is something that I don't know if I could do. But the other thing is, is, you know, you've made it when you had a movie made about your story and not only has Beth done an incredible job with her success in the sport, but, um, the movie was actually really good.

OJ BORG 00:51:40

I haven't watched the movie yet. Not because I don't appreciate a story because I'm slightly terrified of sharks after watching jaws as a nine year old. So, and because I surf badly once or twice a year, I surf badly. I remember hearing this story when it happened to bank, Oh my God, this is terrible. And then seeing her back in the water, I was blowing my mind, blew my mind totally that she was back and the ability to surf as well, surfing. If you'd be, obviously you have to paddle, I have to paddle with everything. I've got to get on a wave to do it. One armed is, is extraordinary. The fact that she turned pro won a national title is for me 11 out of 10, easy 11 out of 10. It's the best comeback story. Because again, physical, mental acuity, the fact that she didn't find that shark and rip his eye out, that she is still a bit of an ambassador, not just for surfing, but also for the conservation of the oceans. Beth Hamilton is a hero 11 out of 10

RAYA HUBBELL 00:52:32

Off the chart. I concur.

OJ BORG 00:52:34

Listen, let us know who you think. I mean, if you disagree with our marks, especially one for Frank Mir nobody tell Frank what I said, because if you do, I'll say it was a recording problem actually meant 10, let us know via the usual social channels. Um, and Raya, that brings us to the end of this.

RAYA HUBBELL 00:52:50

And that is it. Thank you for listening to today's show. If you liked what you heard, give us a fun of our social media on Instagram and Twitter can be found at the good times sports club. Thanks very much for all our guests this week. Charley Davison and the lovely Helen Jenkins

OJ BORG 00:53:07

The Good time. Sports club is a Shocked Giraffe production, and is presented by me OJ Borg

RAYA HUBBELL 00:53:11

And me Raya Hubbell the show is produced by Mark Payne with additional productions for five James Watkins until next week. Bye.