Marvin Sordell, Ollie Phillips and Multi-sport athletes
OJ BORG 00:00:07
Hello. Welcome to the Good. Time Sports Club I'm OJ Borg
RAYA HUBBELL 00:00:13
And I'm Raya Hubbell
OJ BORG 00:00:07
Oh my God. Yes, she is. On the show this week we have former footballer Marvin Sordell. He tells us why he turned his back on the game in the prime of his career.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:00:20
And the man who spent seven years captaining England's rugby sevens talks playing in Russia, Christian Louboutin shoes of all things and charity work. We've got the lovely Ollie Phillips
OJ BORG 00:00:33
I love the idea of him talking about Louboutin shoes. And we look at the greatest multi-sport athletes of all time, before we get into the news, I always like to ask you Raya how was your week in sport? Has it been a good one, is the back Okay?
RAYA HUBBELL 00:00:45
Yeah. The back is feeling much better. I spent all weekend doing rehab and physio. So I’ve done several bikes, several runs and several swims this week. So how is my week in sport? But I have got to tell you, I experienced one of the things I haven't experienced in a long time. And it's called lane rage, have you ever heard of this OJ?
OJ BORG 00:01:02
Is that a swimming thing where people are slow in your lane?
RAYA HUBBELL 00:01:06
No. Well, it is when, normally the speed discrepancy, between two swimmers, is so severe that someone becomes raging. And for the first time of my life, it wasn't me. I wasn't so not angry about it, but the guy in the lane - now in this lane to be fair, it was a very busy pool. And the pool was organised so well with COVID. It's double lane. So there's three lanes across this whole pool, which means there really is enough for like six or seven people to be in each lane. They can take more. It just so happens that myself, my fiance, and another very, very good swimmer was in the pool. And we were all swimming reasonably fast and we weren't pushing it, just normal swimming, but for us compared to some of the normal public, that can be quite a differential. And this guy got in and, decided that we were swimming too fast in the fast lane, like way too fast. So, yeah. So I had stopped and said, listen, “We're swimming. This is the set that we're swimming. This is the rest period that we're taking, but don't stress if you swim on the outside, we’ll swim on the inside. And we won't get in each other's way. Don't stress”. And, to cut a long story short as we were swimming, he's going on and on and on to lifeguards about how inappropriate we've been. The problem that he doesn't understand is that we also coach at this pool and know the staff really well. Like they're all of our buddies. So what actually did this guy over the edge was when he was saying, “they're being really irresponsible. They shouldn't be swimming like this” and the lifeguards weere like “you do realise you're in the fast lane, there's nowhere for them to go.” So if you have a problem with the speed at which they're swimming, or we suggest you move over, but he was way too fast for that lane. So he absolutely threw the biggest strop I've ever seen. He picked up his water bottle, started throwing stuff as he was walking to the changing rooms. The best bet though was when I decided, “You know what? It is such a crappy time for everyone, I'm actually going to get out of the pool, still dripping wet in my swimming costume. I'm going to go out into the lobby. cause you can see the lobby is all glass when he gets out.”
OJ BORG 00:03:37
Yeah.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:03:39
And he turned, you know, when he turned around to me and said, “how dare you are behave like this? In the 20 years of me being a professional athlete, I have never seen behaviour like this”. So I went, “you must've been a footballer” and just turned around and walked away!
OJ BORG 00:03:55
Boom, feel the burn! I mean, yeah, i get lane rage. I get lane rage because the problem is where I swim. I mean, I used to be a swimmer. Well, you know, I was good. I am, you know a natural, I think everyone's got a natural sport that they’re good at they’ve always been quickest with, you know? And I just am, but I don't train a lot. So where I train there only tends to be usually one or maybe two lanes. And it does make me angry when people are in the wrong lane, because it says fast, there is a fast lane. I mean, sometimes basically, there is only one lane, but there is other places you could swim. And it's that awkward thing, which is if you're quicker than somebody who's doing breaststroke really slowly without goggles on it's like, what do you do? Do I swim round you? And look like a bit of a [censored] do I tap your feet? Do I do breaststroke? Do I do like a water polo turn and just blast back up? I mean, it's really awkward. I mean, I don't totally know what I've never done. I have the worst thing I've resorted to once, which I really shouldn't have done was I was becoming angry and they were slow and they were in the fast lane. I basically swam under them and kicked off the wall. I went back under them on of the way out and I was just like, hopefully you get the message there. But the one thing is, I think it's very difficult to be angry and to retain any form of pride whilst wearing a pair of Speedos. It's very difficult to be angry.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:05:18
Exactly. And you also have an exciting week of Sport coming up don’t you?
OJ BORG 00:05:24
I do, yes. I'm doing something called the second city divide, which is off-road ride between two of the cities in the UK, between Glasgow and Manchester. They're termed as the two second cities don't ask me, I didn't come up with them. And, you know, are you a faffer before you go on a bike ride?
RAYA HUBBELL 00:05:39
I used to be, I am no longer.
OJ BORG 00:05:42
Yeah. I've, I've got a bit better over the years, but I can do when it gets into my head, I can faff imagine getting ready for a bike pack. It's just faff times, 10,000. My bags only turned up today and I go, first thing tomorrow morning, I couldn't work out how much to pack. Do I need a Hawaiian shirt? Are we gonna stop in a pub? You know, like that sort of stuff. And what I realised is the distances are a lot more than I thought. It’s all off road and the climbing is a lot more. Like day one is a 100kms and 1700m of climbing, you know, off-road pretty mean, okay, day 2 125kms 3000m of climbing day. And then day three is, is, you know, the same sort of thing again. So I went from being, “oh, this is going to be lovely. We'll stop and have a beer. I’ve packed a hip flask”.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:06:25
And a Hawaiian shirt..
OJ BORG 00:06:29
Oh my God. Yeah, literally. I’ve not tapered for three weeks for this. Why have I not gone and got a massage? Not just a sports massage, but a whale song one to prepare me mentally for what's coming. So yes. I'm excited about it. Next time we do a show on the, on the Sports Club. I will be, yeah, I'll have stories. I'm sure how well or badly it went, but I, I tell you what I have done. I throw money at the problem. I had an argument with my wife recently cause she went, “I've seen a lot of stuff. Turn up how much you've actually spent on this holiday with new bike packing bags”. I had to buy some new lycra, I bought about 4,000 calories per day is worth of food, you know? And I made the mistake of being honest and she's like, “Oh, I see. So basically you spent a family holidays worth of money on a four day bike packing trip”. I bought some new handlebars. I was such a faffer that i bought new handlebars, which I haven't been able to go on with. But listen, it's not about it. We've got a very long story about us and our week so let's invite you into the club and do the news. And we'll start with former world athletics, chief Lamine Diack who has been sentenced to four years in prison on corruption and money laundering charges. The charges relate to the Russian doping scandal and receiving Russian money for a Senegalese presidential electin
RAYA HUBBELL 00:07:41
And Toyota are heavy favourites to defend their crown at the 24 hours of Le Mans this weekend. Oh, love this race. However, with the race taking place, three months later, extra hours of darkness and heavy rain could derail their bid.
OJ BORG 00:07:50
Have you ever been to Le Mans?
RAYA HUBBELL 00:07:54
I have, I wasn't there during the race though. I just, I would love to go and see it.
OJ BORG 00:08:04
I went, I did a show there. We did it for. It was for Toyota. Yeah. It's Nismo Toyota isn't it?
MARK PAYNE 00:08:09
Nissan
OJ BORG 00:08:12
Yeah. So it was from the Nissan. And basically we did a 25 hour YouTube broadcast me and a team of presenters. And it was because they had this thing called the Zeod a few years ago now. And it was the first ever electric race car and they were attempting it, it was Zero Emissions On Demand. And you know, it had this weird sort of shape. The thing was though that they spent so much money on this broadcast. They couldn't afford any actual TV rights to Le Mans on the broadcast we did. So we did it in a studio and we'd, you know, we had, we had a camera in the car and then there was another car. We did some stuff with as well. But the problem is the ZEOD lasted, I think an hour and 15 minutes before it went out and then the other car lasted whatever four hours. So basically we did about 18 hours of broadcast with just data, just data. And it was a, it was an odd way to experience Le Mans Let me tell you, it was a very odd way to,
RAYA HUBBELL 00:09:02
That was a juicy presentation.
OJ BORG 00:09:05
Luckily I lucked out I got the, the shifts where stuff was happening. I mean, one guy literally did four hours on his own talking about data. Anyway, Tottenham are in advanced talks to sign Real Madrid, star Gareth bale. The Welsh international left Tottenham for a then World Record fee of 85 million pounds in 2013.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:09:24
Right. It is now time for Marvin Sordell. As a player Marvin represented England at youth level, played in TeamGB’s, Olympic football team, and played Premier League football for Bolton and Burnley and six other teams across England's football league. Last year, Marvin turned his back on the game that he played since he was just a child citing the damage professional football had done to his mental health. Now Marvin is thriving in a second career as a writer, activist and producer. We caught up with him from his home in Watford where we sought to find out how his new life was keeping him busy.
OJ BORG 00:10:10
Marvin his professional career began on the Sunday league pitches where he was scouted by Chelsea. Though Marvin was rejected from their set up he told us that the lessons he’d learned in that process helped secure him a contract with Fulham before joining Watford, where he made his first team debut. For someone that had worked so hard to enter the game, I was keen to find out at what point of the game stopped being fun for him.
MARVIN SORDELL 00:10:22
Probably the moment I left Watford, I would say. Because you, you all of a sudden realised the expectation and pressure that comes with the job. And I was 20. When I left Watford to sign for Bolton, who were a Premier League club of the time, sign me for 3 million pounds or wherever it may have been. And all of a sudden there's a lot of pressure for me to perform playing in the Premier League. Being a Premier League football player is unlike anything really that I imagined it to be. And you know, the invasion of privacy, you know, the way your life isn't necessarily in your own hands was a big shock. And all of a sudden I realised that professional football wasn't just going out and playing football. There was so much more to it. There was, there was a lot that you'd have to deal with to be successful, and which I struggled to get my head around really for, for quite some time. And because of that, you, you know, you can't just go out and enjoy yourself and play and, and, and hopefully play well, you know, there is so much more to it than just playing. Well,
OJ BORG 00:11:36
Did you find that people were treating you less as a human being more as a product?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:11:43
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's pretty much the football industry summed up to be honest. That's it, you're in it, you're an asset, you're an investment and yeah, you're essentially a product. So what your worth is, is what your input is, what, sorry, you, what your output is essentially
OJ BORG 00:12:04
The experience you had in football. Is that, I mean, is it idiosyncratic, is it individual to you or do you think there are a lot of people like yourself stories that are not being told of people who feel the same in football?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:12:14
My story, is the common story in football. If anything, to be honest. And I've spoken to tons of players since I've retired, you know, before I retired as well. And it's just what we know, it's what we know that we have to do to survive. You know, not, not just to thrive in the industry, to survive in the industry. You have to just get your head down and accept whatever is thrown at you. And some people do a bit better than others. Some people hide it better than others and some people are just accepting of it. I wasn't accepting of it, which is why my career and my mental health went the way it did, because I wouldn't accept being treated a certain way or being spoken to a certain way or without asking to understand why this is occurring or, you know, I'm being spoken to in a certain way. I'd always ask because I've been taught and I was brought up to be respectful and to as well as giving respect to receive respect. No, I, I like to think that I'm somebody that is well-respected because of the fact that I hold myself in, in a certain manner. And so when I'm treated in a disrespectful manner, I don't react well to that as most would in, in any other given workspace or environment. But the football industry is very unique in that sense. So it isn't a case of, you know, I'm being spoken to in a, you know, like a, like a child almost at times, and you think, well, I'm not a child, so can you address me in a different manner, but that's that, that's a problem. That's a very problematic thing.
OJ BORG 00:13:59
Marvin do you think if you'd had a coach around you, who'd given you that respect, do you think you'd still be playing now because you retired last year at 28, you're 29. Now these are your peak years as a football,
MARVIN SORDELL 00:14:09
Potentially, but if you have very, you have so many different personalities within the footwear industry, you know, coaches, managers, players, that you're not always going to get people like that. I had managers and I had coaches like that, who I could converse with and treated me in a very respectful manner. But I had also some people who treated me in a very disrespectful manner. And so, you know, you can't, you isn't life. Isn't always perfect. You're always going to get the perfect scenario where you're living in a place that you like, you have teammates that you like, you're going to have, um, a manager or a coach that you like, and the fans are going to respond well to you and your playing well. And the, the, the, you know, all of these things are, are factors in to what can make a career at a specific place successful or not.
OJ BORG 00:15:01
You talk about the ugly side of football, um, which is something that drove you out of the game and made your mental health deteriorate. What is the ugly side of football?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:15:08
All of those things, you know, people talk about mental health and, you know, racism, homophobia, bullying, bullying is a big thing that happens in football. And that's
OJ BORG 00:15:18
From people within, with inside the Club
MARVIN SORDELL 00:15:21
From people with inside football but we don't call it bullying. We don't label it as bullying. We just say, that's what you need to do. You just need to get your head down and carry on because that's what you're supposed to do. You know, you can't question authority in any given way. You can't be seen to step out of line at all, because if so, you're going to get punished in your, if you're out of line, you're going to get either thrown out or you're going to get discipline. So you get back in line,
OJ BORG 00:15:54
I guess sometimes you look at football and you see maybe the players who are playing the Champions League, you know, sort of the top few percent. And it seems like they have all the power within a football club. Again, are they the exception to the rule?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:16:06
That's not always necessarily the case, you know, because how many players are within the team? You might have one superstar on that team. And that won't be on every team who is above that, who is the exception to the rule because their stock is at high, that then they are of more value than the people that they would answer to in a sense. So if the person that player answers to is normally the manager, and if the manager is more disposable than the player to the Club, then the player will have the power in that situation. Whereas in more often than not, the players are more disposable.
OJ BORG 00:16:49
Just, just to finish off the story, to get to where we are right now, as long as you don't mind me talking about it, um, you got to such a low with the dock side of football and your mental health deteriorating that you got yourself to a point where you attempted to take your own life. Just, just detail. What happened up to that moment, and then how you have bounced back from that.
MARVIN SORDELL 00:17:08
A loss of knowing who I really was, which kind of happened over a period of time, as opposed to it wasn't like there wasn't like a tipping point. You know, it was over a period of time of a lack of identity and, and being treated in certain ways and not really understanding what was going on around me as well. I mean, there were so many different factors to it, which I've touched on in, in so many different conversations before a lot of these things added up really, as opposed to, I guess, one thing, single thing, kind of pushing me over the edge. It's a lot of things building and chipping away over a period of time. And I got to that point without, with, with, a lack of self worth and not wanting to continue in life because I thought life, life was more painful than death at that point. And what kind of, well, how I am wearing them today is because I've told that story umpteen times. I've I have found different outlets to understand why I felt, how I felt and how I got to that point. And of course, one football was one of those things as well, where I understand that my personality isn't suited to just being a yes or no. Yes, sir. No, sir. Type of person. I can't understand how somebody treating you in a certain manner is fine. No, I won't accept that. I won't accept except somebody's being disrespectful to me or telling me to do something without me being able to question that as an adult. I, yeah. I mean, that's, that's of course that's, that's, you know, one major element and factor that added to it, but also just a lack of identity. I think as well, you know, in football, we don't the industry and football doesn't allow for players to step outside of this environment and say, right, I want to be an artist. I want to be a musician. I want to be a filmmaker. I want to be a writer, you know?
OJ BORG 00:19:29
No, because you said you were learning the piano, you were learning to cook creatively and a manager said, stop it just concentrate on football.
MARVIN SORDELL 00:19:36
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a very common thing. And a very common phrase actually within football is, is concentrate on football. Whereas I've, I've questioned that. And I've questioned that probably my entire football career as well. And I've always said, what does that actually mean? Because if I go to training, I get there early. I do my gym work, a train, train, hard. I go into the gym afterwards, or I do extras on a pitch afterwards. That's concentrated on football, but if I get home at three o'clock and I fancy writing or painting or playing the piano, I don't see how that takes away from anything else that's going on in my life. So that was, that was one of the most frustrating things I battled really. And I did have to battle it throughout my career, because that is just the mentality that exists within the game.
OJ BORG 00:20:25
Is it difficult to talk about this previous life as a footballer?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:20:29
Not really. I mean, it's being very honest and I can speak honestly now, because I'm not in the football industry. You know, there are many people who want to say this, but they can't. And the problem, they, the reason why they can't is because if they do, it's going to affect their career. Whereas because I'm in a completely different space in a completely different industry, I can, I'm able to talk freely about this and people say, no, that's great. You're able to be so honest. I wish out of players would like this and say, well, you don't give them space. You don't allow them to talk like this. So they're not going to.
OJ BORG 00:21:03
Yeah. I mean, cause I guess the look of it is from the outside, people would start thinking, even knowing your story, what you've been through the lows, people would still think, I can't believe you're throwing this away.
MARVIN SORDELL 00:21:15
It’s not throwing away at all. I mean, I had a dream to be a professional football player at the during playing Premier League. I achieved all of the dreams that I wanted to achieve in football, you know, and more really, you know, I played for England at the under 20 and under 21 level, I played in the Olympics with team GB, I played Premier League football with two clubs, I’ve played in the Championship, I’ve played in League One I’ve scored goals at multiple levels. So what am I throwing away? You know, I've, I've achieved it and I want to achieve more in a different capacity, in a different area.
OJ BORG 00:21:51
Well, talk to me now, then what do you want to achieve now? What are the dreams now
MARVIN SORDELL 00:21:55
Loads? I mean, it's endless really because I have multiple areas that I work in. I'm a writer producer. I had a production company, of course. Um, and I just love to tell stories. I want to make documentaries films, series adverts, you know, you name it. I like, I like to tell stories and I want to continue to be able to write on or use my voice to help support people and show people that there's more to life than football.
OJ BORG 00:22:25
If there was one thing you could change about football, if there's one thing that you could change right now that would make all of the players, you and everyone else happy, what was it? What would you change?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:22:35
Freedom to be yourself. And I think that that, I mean, that comes from multiple places. It comes from media comes from social media. It comes from fans. It comes from clubs, just the freedom to be themselves would change a lot of things in football.
OJ BORG 00:22:54
Would most players, I mean, cause of the problem is sometimes I guess the lack of freedom comes from sponsorships. It comes from the amount of money clubs are paying. And that again comes from sponsorships. So players are expected to behave in a certain way. Do you think most players would prefer to take less money for more freedom?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:23:12
Probably. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah.
OJ BORG 00:23:16
Making films, writing books, I mean it can also be a tough, well gone. It could be very predatory at the same time. Do you think everything you've learned through football has set you're ready for this next, this next chapter in your life?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:23:28
Yeah. I mean what you, what you have to face in football, the ups and downs and on such a consistent basis. And just being able to bounce back and being able to keep going, regardless of what isn't in front of you. That's how I got into football. That's how I stayed in football. And every single football player has that mentality without realising how powerful it is. You know, you go into the real world and people know a lot of people don't have to be like that because life is not like that. Life is not necessarily like that. And a lot of people listen to this and probably say, life is like that for fool's a very different beast. You know, when you're, you're, you know, you're literally being shouted that belittled and made to feel like absolutely nothing. And that could happen on a daily basis and you still have to get up and you still have to keep going and you still have to find a way to push her into fight. You know, that doesn't happen in a normal, in an ordinary work work environment because you go to HR, whereas that doesn't exist in football.
OJ BORG 00:24:32
No. Could you imagine if any of the clubs you played for how to HR department, how inundated you think they would be by players?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:24:36
Yeah.
OJ BORG 00:24:38
Do you think the fact that football's had to slow down during COVID and the shutdown or the lack of crowds, do you think that will help football in the long run? The fact that it's had to take a bit of time out the fact that, you know, you don't now have 40, 50, 60,000 people in the stadium screaming that you, the fact that it is all just maybe a little bit more arms length, is that going to help football this darker side of football, the ugly side of football?
MARVIN SORDELL 00:25:06
Maybe it might do. I don't know. I mean, I think lockdown has given a lot of people perspective, but then at the same time, things always go back to normal, you know? So who knows, you know, it's hard. It's going to be, I mean, I see a lot of things on a daily basis, whether it's in some group chaps I'm in or, or on social media, I see a lot of things and I take a lot of things in, and I just think so many people say that they're wanting to move forward and then wanting better work environments and, and just more open forums, really for people to be themselves. But it doesn't necessarily feel like that in, in the way people have been acting. I think that's the most diplomatic way of saying it.
OJ BORG 00:26:01
Marvin you were an inspiration to talk. So I, you know, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. I am excited by whatever comes next to you. What will we see next? What's the next thing you released
MARVIN SORDELL 00:26:11
A series that we co-produced with Yahoo, it should be coming out shortly. That’s actually on the darker side of the game, which I interviewed how many there are on our loads, uh, interviewed X number of current and former players anonymously, um, about their experiences on certain subjects within football. So bullying, homophobia, racism, et cetera. We have a short film, which is in which we've submitted to quite a few festivals. We have an advert that we did for the heads up campaign that should be coming up fairly soon. We're filming a documentary, a mini documentary, next month as well, which we'll be looking to put out quite quickly off the way we've done it as well. So there's actually quite a lot.
OJ BORG 00:27:14
You’re a busy man!
MARVIN SORDELL 00:27:16
Yeah.
OJ BORG 00:27:17
Yeah. Well, Marvin has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. I thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. I think, I think your story is compelling and I think the more footballers and the more people in sport full stop who taught like you do come out, hopefully that will engender this atmosphere where people can talk and people aren't just bullied and no, there is ability to talk about it. Hopefully, you know, everyone's happy. That's what everybody wants. Yeah. Marvin thank you, mate. Appreciate your Time.
MARVIN SORDELL 00:27:41
Cool.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:27:42
Thank you. OJ now I had the good pleasure to catch up with my old friend Ollie Phillips. Ollie so many of our listeners will know the sport of rugby very, very well. Um, and therefore I'm hoping we'll know you very well, but for those of you who don't, I would love for you to give me a little whistle stop tour of your amazing rugby career, how you got into it and where you ended up.
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:28:09
Yeah, sure. With pleasure. So, it all started for me as a four year old kid. I basically had two left feet so I can play football. So I, you know, my parents said you might as well go play rugby. I was pretty boisterous and I was quite fat kid. So they sent me off to my local mini rugby club home. And from there I might just love and affinity with it grew. I did the classic, you know I played every weekend and then got a little bit more serious getting to school. And then by the time I was 16, 17, 18, I was playing England schools at an under 18 and then 16 and starting to sort of just love rugby, basically never, probably really anticipated or thought that I could do it professionally. I harbored ambitions obviously had childhood dreams of playing for England at Twickenham and all that sort of stuff, but hand on heart, if I truly believe they're all going to happen, I'd probably be lying. I just, I just love playing. And then I actually got involved with Harlequins. Quinn's was my first Club as sort of a 17, 18 year old lad. And I was, and they offered me a contract and I did the sort of classic school boy era as an 18 year old of messing up my levels, a trick. So I was predicted AABB to go and read economic history with economics at the London School of Economics. So you can tell I was going towards economics, right? I was forecasted AAB I got BBD and my D was in economics.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:29:42
Right. So you, you really, really understand how everyone in COVID times has felt with them.
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:29:49
Oh yeah. Horrific. That was a terrible day. Right? I just didn't have a mass, infection slash you know, crisis to blame. I was just useless and basically messed up my levels. But, you know, I discovered rugby was one and girls in sixth form, which is probably the other, which was another huge, you know, distraction. So anyway, I was very fortunate that Durham University said, you know what? We'll still honour the degree place that we'd offered as my sort of secondary backup. So I ended up going to Durham. It was the best decision I ever made in my life. Went up there. I'd never been more than two miles from my own home in Brighton on the seaside. So going up North as a soft southerner was an interesting balance. And within a year of being there, I hadn't learned my lesson. Cause I then got scouted by the Newcastle Falcons and Jonny Wilkinson was there at that point in time. So I was like, I've got to go play with him. So I signed for them and obviously when you've got a face, only a mother can love, then you need some form of assets. I was like, well, if I'm friends with Jonny Wilkinson and I play rugby, maybe I might get a girlfriend at some point in time.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:31:03
Did it work?
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:31:04
No, no, no, single forever until now my wife is incredibly charitable, but there we go. So yeah, I mean, from there it just sort of spawned. And then I have some of my career in very fast summary then went six, seven years, seven years with Newcastle Falcons. Then, I was picked for England on my first year of, of being at the Falcons. So I got picked into the sort of wider England squad and sevens became my sort of niche. So I ended up playing 11 years for in sevens. I was captain for six of those and then in 2008/2009, I got voted as the best player in the world. And so that spawned a major interest for me or in me from what at the time was Europe's biggest Club, which is a team based in Paris called start Stade Francais. So being from Brighton, I couldn't resist wearing pink every single day. So I had to go and play pink for three years over in Paris. Um, and then I came back cause at the time Martin Johnson was like, look, “We need you to come back. We can't pick you if you're going to be playing in France”. So I came back with all these sort of aspirations sign for Gloucester. And then I crooked myself in June, 2013 at the sevens world cup in Moscow of all places.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:32:29
Oh yeah. I don't know. What's more depressing about that statement, whether where you were possibly injured or the fact it was a career ending injury, you know, you weren't in Fiji, so you could at least enjoy your time?
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:32:44
Exactly yeah. Red Square wasn’t that appealing when I’d done myself in
RAYA HUBBELL 00:32:49
Tell me, you, obviously, you've sort of admitted. You're kind of a good boy, throughout your career, but do you have a most embarrassing moment from your, from your career? Is there something you did that you've got you sort of hang your head in shame for,
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:33:07
Oh gosh. I mean, there's a few,
RAYA HUBBELL 00:33:09
I know you roomed, I know you roomed with a very famous rugby player. At Stade Francais, and I can imagine you two were quite naughty.
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:33:16
Well, that's what I was gonna say. I mean, just cause I didn't booze. I don't, I don't think I can, I can falsely try and lay claim to the title of it that I was a good boy. But you know, I probably, I was even more responsible on the basis of, you know, I wasn't here couldn't even blame blame drink on, on the foolish things that I did. One of the players at Stade was a guy called Pierre Rabadan and he used to go out with one of the bond girls who was in Casino Royale. I mean, she was sponsored by Dolce and Gabbana and he said to me like, Olls we've got, we're going to a big fashion dinner, fashion party out on Place De La Concorde at the bottom of the Champs Elise, but we've got a spare seat. Do you want to come? I was like, yeah, 100%. Like this would be great fun. Right. I go to this fashion dinner and I don't, as you can tell by the garments that I'm wearing this evening of the way I've done my hair, I don't know a huge amount about fashion. So I sit there.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:34:09
I’m sure. You can scrub up nicely. Okay.
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:34:12
Uh, well, I mean, I I'm hoping this is allowed for this book, but they say, you know, you can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter. So that was sort of mess. So anyway, I went to this fashion dinner, some sat around this table of 10 and I know who they all are now. Right. But I'm at the time, I didn't know who any of these people are. I'm sat next to my left I’ve got Dita Von Teese, who is this like burlesque dancer. I'm sat next to Kate Moss’s agent, to my right. And he sort of sat there. Kate Moss is due to arrive. I've got Dolce and Gabbana, Pierre and his girlfriend, I've got the head of the Louvre. And then there is a guy at the end who I've never, and I've got a guy called, Christian Louboutin like this bloke who says he makes shoes with red soles. And then this other bloke sat on the chair He's got like glasses on white gloves. And I'm like, dude, it's like December in Paris what you're doing. There's a guy called Karl Lagerfeld right. So I was like, I saw, I sort of sat around this table and all talk about, “Oh, fashion, darling fashion fashion”. I was like, yeah, no idea. But I was loving it right now. They said that you've got to enter this raffle a hundred euros for this raffle is like a hundred euros, a raffle. And they say “don't worry, you're guaranteed to win”. So it's not really a raffle then, is it? You're just giving me a hundred euros, I'm winning something. Right. So, you know, pay this a hundred years, a lot better to where everyone's doing pay this a hundred euros. And I won this, this pair of shoes, right? This women's pair of shoes,
RAYA HUBBELL 00:35:44
In your size?
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:35:46
No size six, and there’s like clutch bag that comes with it. Right. And to be fair, these shoes were beautiful. But I was like, what the hell is this? So you know, a typical rugby lad. Like I'm trying to put these shoes on prancing around like Karl and they're made by Christian these shoes they're Louboutin shoes. Right. So anyway, I get home off, off this dinner and I'm living with a guy at the time called James Haskell. Who I think, you know Raya but um, anyway, so I get home, I say, “Hask mate”. He said “how was the dinner”. I was like, “Oh, it was all right. A load of old fashion nonsense that I didn’t know, sat next to this bloke Karl someone in glasses didn't know who he was”. He was like, “Karl Lagerfeld what are you talking about blah, blah, blah” He knows what he's doing. And I was like, there's some woman Dita, Dita Von something. She does a load of dancing anyway. And I said, look, I won this pair of shoes. And I said, “what do I want these for?” So toss them in the bin, the box in the bin. And he's like, what shoes? I pulled them out. And he said, “Oh no, no, no, no, wait”. So he sort of searched online and these shoes were three grand, three grand right now it came out polish, polish them up. Let's flog them. Let's flog them. And I am a hopeless romantic, right. I am a hopeless romantic. So I wasn't going to sell these shoes. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to keep these shoes. This is honestly, this is a gospel true story. Right. So I'm going to keep these shoes and Cinderella, like the woman of my dreams, like who I am meant to marry, these shoes will fit. Right. And I never ever removed them from their bag ever again. Right. This was in 2009. This experience was right fast forward to December, 2018. And my wife is pregnant while my girlfriend is pregnant with my first child and I was going to propose to her. Right. I decided I was going to propose to it and she'd never sit like no one ever seen this. You'd never, ever even looked at the box and that, but she, I, once when we're moving house or moving some stuff, she'd seen like a Louboutin box. And I was like, never looking there. It's just like, there's a pair of shoes in there and whoever I'm married, they're going to be for them. Right. and I did. And obviously the time she's probably on, maybe it'd be me. Maybe not, but I didn't say anything. This was like a year before, two years before. Okay. And, um, anyway, I've got all my family, 30 people around for Christmas, Christmas Eve. I just sort of say, look, everyone, thanks for all being here. I just got a sort of special announcement and I'd wrapped this box of shoes. Right. And I had a wedding ring or engagement ring in my pocket and I put the shoes down in front of her and I read a poem to her about like how much, like, you know, loved her, et cetera, et cetera. And I remember putting the box on front and she knew what was in the box at this point. She could tell us now. And I remember thinking, Oh my God, I don't know if these things fit, but you know, what, if they don't fit, like, you know, to this point, the story is perfect. Right. But if this goes wrong, this doesn't work. I'm a nightmare. Right. So I read the poem and I met, I didn't obviously tell, I told her off to us, but during the whole process on wrapping the box, I was like, Oh my God, they've got fear. Cause they don't, I can't marry you. I can't marry you as well over at Raya. And I'm not, I swear on my, my grave, these things fitted, like perfect
RAYA HUBBELL 00:39:12
Yeah
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:39:15
And then shewore these shoes down the aisle for our wedding day. Yeah,
RAYA HUBBELL 00:39:21
Absolutely. Perfect. Right. That is absolutely kind of like, I love it. That's like a crazy story turned fairytale, which is awesome. Let's, let's move on a little bit post career. You, um, went into coaching and I think it was it last year, the end of last year you started, coaching a very prestigious female program.
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:39:44
Yeah. Yeah. I um, so that came through. So a very good friend of mine who I used to play with and against and know well is sort of head of head of performance for Wales, a guy called Ryan Jones and he sort of rang me and said, look, we, we really want to make a big play. The Commonwealth games, the Olympics, you know, women's sport is, is a major focus for us as, as a union. Um, and we want somebody that's good that can help us really grow women's sport. Women's rugby in this, in the sevens arena, because as a sport and a spectacle, it's much more attractive for a female audience. It's, it's less about, you know, sticking your head where no one else would actually touch in the pee and down rain. It's about fast flow in rugby, athletic in the sunshine, like just a much better brand for us to go with. And we would love you to come in and coach, you know, so I said, okay, we clearly don't want it to be any good, but you know, great I'll come in and coach. Right. So I, I loved it when I saw. I was really apprehensive about the whole experience, um, because I, I had always wanted to coach, but I never had the sort of guts or commissions just to give it a go. And when COVID really came. I mean, it never comes at the right time, but it really came at the, at the worst time for, for us in our program, we were just about to sort of go properly, live, go to the sort of European championships with it and everything else that with the girls and they were buzzing. So, you know, that was a rid of, you know, a proper mood killer. But, um, but you know, it was, it's been an amazing experience so far.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:41:20
Yeah. Well, um, you know, I'm a big advocate of women in sport and it's so great to see with your daughters and the work that you're doing in women's sport. I hope that the whales women's 17 go really well. I'm with you at the helm. But mate, what I really want to talk to you about today is all the post rugby stuff, because I actually met you outside of rugby doing something totally crazy. And you happen to, of been a rugby player. And this is where I just, I love the stuff that you do because you, I don't know if you can say no to anything or you you're always up for a challenge and if you can raise amazing money for incredible causes you're you're totally game.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:42:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, well, so we met when you were invest Africa, that was when it was all happening, you do some amazing sort of transformation projects out in Africa. And I was getting involved with a, uh, an AIDS awareness charity called Skrum based out in Africa, um, in, in predominant in Swaziland and Kenya. But, um, yeah, so that was where all sort of first instruction came through. I mean, I mean, my, I guess as a, as a root cause we can talk about all the crazy stupid things that I've done in a sec, but the root of it always was, you know, when I finished my rugby career, I was incredibly well, I was incredibly sad actually, when I finished Rugby because it ended earlier than I wanted it to happen, but I was also incredibly grateful just for that. You know, I guess the, a, the experiences I'd had, the stories that I can share, like someone that I've just shared already. And also the people that I'd met, like the network that I built and I realised that I was in a very fortunate position that, um, that when I was five years old, six years old, running around Hove,mini rugby Club, I'd probably never dreamed, could ever have happened. And originally it just, if I'm honest, the very first experience that I had, which is this thing called the Clipper Round the World Race, which was a sailing race around the world. And my training for this Clipper Round the World Race had happened very late. Cause I'd gone into the world cup and had five weeks to go. And I had teams, the only people I could train with was the Sapinda Rainbow Foundation, Nelson Mandela’s rainbow foundation. So I did all my coaching training with 12 representatives from theSapinda Rainbow Foundation who'd never even been out there, you know, township let alone South Africa on a boat sent around the world. So, I mean, that was probably one of the most humbling experiences I'd ever been on that race. And I just remember my reasons and rationale now in hindsight for doing the cooperate we're out of desperation, I was lost. I was, I just got injured. I am, my career had suddenly been pulled out from underneath my 29. I was like, what am I going to do now? Probably clinging on to anything I could. And actually just so somebody or somebody was also looking out for me cause it was the best decision I ever made. Right. But, but I always thought to myself, well, there's no point just doing this stuff for the sake of it. You know, that's, let's do it to, to raise some money and raise some awareness and profiles for, for charities, you know, no such thing as bad charity, but it's just some charities that were very important relevant for me. One of them was the Alzheimer's society for me. Cause my grandmother, unfortunately six months before had died because of that. So I was, vacantly sort of pursuing that cause. And as a result, I've teamed up with probably there's probably four or five charities now that I work with, there are there's four or five charities that I work with all the time. And across those five in five years, we've raised to just shy of 2.7 million now doing all these charity, all of these events and world records and whatever else at that and all the, you know, the certificates at the end, the experiences are obviously great. But if I'm going to stay just dust collectors or sit on your wall, the most amazing thing is just, you know, stuff like this, like, you know, ran, I've always got a story, you know, we've created loads of stories since, right. But we've got a story. Cause do you remember that time that we met in, I think it was Green Park, you know where we're talking about like Invest Africa, blah, blah, blah. Right? Like life is about stories. It's about experiences and, and that's what, that's what I love about it. I've never ever gone to anyone. Oh, do you remember that time? When I was on my own? Like I've, I've I've I've I've never said that. Right. You know, so yeah. I love, I love that piece of like, right, right. Do you remember that time? We did the stupid thing and you're like, Oh God. Yeah. You know, and it can be small. It can be big. It doesn't matter. But you know, life is about those stories and experiences. And that's why I do the crazy things. And we try and raise a load of money at the same time.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:46:03
Ollie listen. Um, hook me up on one of your adventures. You've invited me to at the last couple and I've always been so down, but not been able to join. So I will, I will be there for one of them. I promise I can't wait.
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:46:14
I would love you to, it would be amazing. Right? Although I'll probably be just trying desperately to hang onto coattails as you're flying off into the distance, but I will be there saying “catch her, catch her”, “someone stop that woman”. Maybe I'll take one of your wheels off and you're still maybe the same speed as me.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:46:31
Awesome. Ollie amazing. Thank you so much for joining us. I will see you soon.
OLLIE PHILLIPS 00:46:36
Pleasure. Awesome. Thanks team. Speak to you later. Bye. Bye.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:46:41
OJ the Cinderella story who’d have thought?
OJ BORG 00:46:45
I know, I know whoever the shoe shall fit I shall marry. Have you ever won anything? Do you know what a raffle is? Are you aware what a raffle is
RAYA HUBBELL 00:46:52
As in like you buy tickets and you win something,
OJ BORG 00:46:56
I'm just checking. You have raffles in Canada. You know maybe it's not a thing.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:46:59
I don’t think it's a British thing. This definitely could be a global thing. Buying tickets for charity and hopefully winning something
OJ BORG 00:47:04
Yeah. I mean, believe me a British institution is the meat raffle used to get down pubs where you'd buy a ticket and win like some bits of pork, some beef and a couple of shoulder's of mutton. What do you, what have you worn in your life? You've ever won anything good in a raffle?
RAYA HUBBELL 00:47:16
Nothing good but I've always, I've always won like a little something here and there, but honestly nothing springs to mind. So obviously they weren't that special
OJ BORG 00:47:26
I’ve won one thing in my entire life. I'm 41 years, I think. Am I? Yes, I am. I've won one thing in my entire life. And that was on a day trip to Alton Towers, which is a theme park. I won the raffle. I got a football. One of those really cheap. You call them flyaway footballs, which have no weight to them. That was it I won it. So proud, I went home that night and the estate we lived on, the people who lived in the flat under us, I kicked the football against the window and broke it and the kid who lived there who was a couple years older than me, he came out and punched me in the stomach. There you go. That's my raffle story. The only thing I've ever went in a raffle I've got really bad memories, really bad.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:48:01
So we won't do that at the Christmas party?
OJ BORG 00:48:04
No. Then let's not. No footballs. No punching me in the stomach please. Right? It's time to introduce our friend Mr. Payne; Mark Payne producer of this show, our handler to talk us through multi-sport athletes. Why are we doing that this week? Mark
MARK PAYNE 00:48:18
Well, the man who as I speak on Wednesday is currently leading the Tour. Just dominated the queen stage from the GC group. Slovenia's Primoz Roglic is famously a man who was a ski jumper before he was professional cyclist, he’s now on his way to what to looks a Tour de France victory.
OJ BORG 00:48:37
Well don’t jinx the man! What’s wrong with you.
MARK PAYNE 00:48:37
I just want a more exciting third week!
OJ BORG 00:48:42
We’ve still got five stages to go including that Time trial, but yes, go on. Sorry. Yes. He's a ski jumper isn’t he.
MARK PAYNE 00:48:47
He was a ski jumper. Yeah. And it's become a bit of a cycling lore and people kind of often get a bit sort of annoyed that it's always brought up in relation to him. So I thought I’d wind them up a little bit more
OJ BORG 00:49:00
So I thought I love it. I love it. I've been doing podcasts for Peloton magazine in America with a load of British cyclists, La Course en Tet podcast. And, I shoehorn it in every time because it's a meme. It's literally like, “Oh you mean Primoz Roglic” the ski jumper. Oh, he's very good on descents. Although he brings up himself, he was doing an interview after stage, whatever the stage was before today, he brought it up the, on the climb up to whatever today's climb was the big one. He actually pointed it out that like ski, like ski dot marks or something on the road. So he does bring it up himself. He's a self-generating meme. Yes. So we are looking at Mark then people who have excelled in more than one sport, for instance, triathletes. Cause they have to excel in three sports. Am I right Raya Hubbell
RAYA HUBBELL 00:49:40
Listen if you are not world-class at one sport, throw two others in there and hope for the best.
OJ BORG 00:49:47
Love it. So, ow are we going to do this? We've rated it last week. We rated it on. We've done. Bounce-back come back ability last week we did what'd we do last week.
MARK PAYNE 00:50:00
Last week. It was unexpected winners.
OJ BORG 00:50:03
Unexpected winners. What should we rate out of 10? Should we show up ability? I think maybe show off ability 10 out of 10 where we started Mark
MARK PAYNE 00:50:12
Okay. So we're going to start with Rebecca Romero. Now it's a name that may or may not be familiar with you. It's an amazing story right at the start of Great Britain's dominance of the track cycling campaign. And she came to the fore then, and she won the individual pursuit at the Beijing Olympics. Beating fellow Brit Wendy Houvenaghel in the final. She was 28, I think at the time she did it. But at that point she'd this was our second career. It was a second Olympic medal because she'd also earned the silver or the Athens Olympics in the quadruple skulls in the rowing, had had a back injury and been forced to retire. And she basically went straight from retiring from rowing in 2006, to winning world cup events in less than five months,
OJ BORG 00:50:50
Which is unbelievable for show off ability. Where are you going to go with this? Raya cause I, I know why I'm going to go high. I have a reason why.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:51:03
So I am going to go medium high. The reason for that is because one, this is epic. I have also broken my back and coming back from it this quickly is of this world. So I'm going to go pretty high for that. However, the other reason why I'm not going to go top is because ex rowers are some of the best athletes in the world. And once you have that pedigree, you can basically go and do anything. So I'm going in at a solid eight today.
OJ BORG 00:51:38
Okay. So I'm going to go, I think I'm going to go as a nine and the reason I'm going to as a nine is because, um, she managed to Excel at both and to show how hard it is, Bradley Wiggins, which, you know, however you like Bradley Wiggins, however you take him on your toast. He was, you know, and he is he is he, is he the most, most gold medalled athlete in Olympic history? What's the, whatever it is. He holds records because he's won at so many Olympic games. And you know, he was the first Brit to win the Tour de France, one of the best cyclists this country has ever produced yet when he retired, he decided he was going to attempt at rowing and didn't get anywhere. I mean, I know he only did it on an ergo, but it was a bit of a failure. Although apparently did he miss the start? Or we only rowed 500 meters when we thought it was 2000. I think there was, there was something around it, but, yeah. So to show how difficult is look at Bradley Wiggins, who is the consummate amazing athlete record breaking the rest of it.
RAYA HUBBELL 00:52:30
This is exactly what I mean is you've got to start as a rower, get that VO2 capacity, get that cardiovascular system as strong as rowers, get them. And then you can go to any other sport. Don't go and try and be a rower after you've done something else. It doesn't matter if it was decorated athlete of all time
OJ BORG 00:52:48
But if you’ve got the engine. You’ve got the engine. So I actually am all right at rowing, I've only ever done it on an ergo. What can you do 2km in?
RAYA HUBBELL 00:52:53
I honestly couldn't tell you. I don't know. The last time I was on an ERG,
OJ BORG 00:52:57
Cause I was very close to buying one. Cause I got really into it for Isle I'd had, I'd had a few back problems and I thought I need to strengthen my core. And that was my way of doing it. Cause I can't stand doing situps. And I managed to get 2000 meters under, under seven minutes and I was so proud of myself, but I, I was sick in my mouth and had to be unclipped from the ergo. It was one of those words, you know, you see it, you know, I was like, literally I was like that, but a secure moment of dribbling out and one of the guys who went to the gym was like, “should I just don't clip your legs for you” as I'm lying on the contorted off It. It's like, “yeah, that'd be nice”. “We've got a bucket”
RAYA HUBBELL 00:53:30
In all fairness. I would say it's not the first time we've done that. I'm pretty sure at the end of a race that you and I have done together on Swift on your turbo trader I'm, I'm pretty sure you've done the same
OJ BORG 00:53:40
I go deep. That's what you need. I like to suffer. It makes me feel like I'm alive where we go next.
MARK PAYNE 00:53:45
I'm just going to say before we moved on from that, that, that thing you were mentioning with Bradley Wiggins, if you've not seen it and you've not seen what Bradley Wiggins has looked like since retiring for in cycling is the strangest bit of footage you'll ever see because essentially you've got all these lean, really strong rowers lying down in the middle of the Olympic velodrome, where he basically had all of his glory. And then you've got this slightly bedraggled man with a beard and I had really long hair and then the race starts and he just sort of like, he goes really enthusiastic for the first three rows and then he just stops looks around and then carries on and then halfway through, he then decides, you know what? This isn't for me slows down and gives up.
OJ BORG 00:54:25
No, no, I don't think he gave up. I think he didn't realise the distance. I'm sure that's what I heard.
MARK PAYNE 00:54:30
I think what happened was he messed the start up and then just basically he wasn't going to win.
OJ BORG 00:54:41
Not for me. I'm taking my Erg and I'm going home. He looks like you've ever seen the film. The Wes Anderson film, the Royal Tenenbaums, he looked like Luke, it looks like Luke Wilson's character in that. Look it up.
MARK PAYNE 00:54:50
But Rebecca Romero is we, before we move on, she to give you an idea of just how rare this feat is. She was only the second woman in Olympic history. Two of one, two Olympics metals, a different sport. Amazing, amazing, very amazing. That's all going to go on the next one. Now, now I knew this, uh, this person before, um, I was amazed to find out that they were a professional athlete in another sport. Katie Taylor if you follow boxing in any form, you'll know the name Katie Taylor one of the greatest amateur athletes, amateur boxers ever in men or women, five straight championship gold, an Olympic title is an amateur she's currently the undisputed world champion best pound for pound boxer. Unbeaten record is a pro uh, this year. So played at an Irish cup final and played 11 games for the Republic of Ireland and scored twice as a football.
OJ BORG 00:55:36
So, I mean, that's amazing. I mean, absolutely amazing. Katie Taylor is a bit of a hero mind. The fact that she has been so impressive over her career, I didn't realize she'd played football as well. I'm going to give her a straight one, seven out of 10. I'm going to give her seven out of 10
RAYA HUBBELL 00:55:54
I'm with you on that one 7 out of 10. Her boxing career has been incredibly Epic.
OJ BORG 00:56:00
Could you take her in a fight? How long actually. No, of course not. She's a trained boxer. How long do you think you could last?
RAYA HUBBELL 00:56:04
Okay. Good I don't know. I don't reckon I'm I'm tough. I can do iron man's left right inside. Are I absolutely love the going the distance? I don't reckon I could take a punch.
MARK PAYNE 00:56:18
I reckon I could last two rounds, but purely because I can only run away from her for two routes.
OJ BORG 00:56:23
You say that, but when you actually, when you get somebody who's trained, trained boxer, they're very good at cutting down the space to stop you doing that. Um, what is the, I don't know who said it, it was other Tyson or Dana White, something like that, which is everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face.
MARK PAYNE 00:56:37
Yeah Tyson
OJ BORG 00:56:38
Is that a Tyson line is it. There's another really good Tyson line I heard as well recently, which was I'm going to Google it while we're talking actually, which was about social. It was Tyson on social media.
MARK PAYNE 00:56:45
Was it your ear looks delicious?
OJ BORG 00:56:53
No, here you go. Here. It's Mike Tyson on social media, “social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it”.
MARK PAYNE 00:57:01
I mean that just means Mike Tyson's going to come and slap me one now doesn’t it?
OJ BORG 00:57:06
Don’t you be disrespecting him. Don't you be disrespecting him. Hey Mike. Hey Mike. All right, here we going with next.
MARK PAYNE 00:57:11
Next on the list is Kevin Mark Payne. Now he's another Irish star that excelled in two sports. He made 231 appearances for Man United beginning in 1988. Sorry, winning the FAA cup in 1982 and 83 and again in 84 85. And it was also the first man ever to be red carded in an FA cup final. He's got that on his side as well, but he was also a brilliant Gaelic footballer. So he won two All-Ireland Finals with Dublin in back to back years in 76 and 77 and was one of the stars of the game as well.
OJ BORG 00:57:39 Yeah, I'm going to go low with this. I'm going to go low with this. I'm going to say 610. The reason for that is Gaelic football and football are vaguely similar. The difference being that Gaelic football, you could just pick up the ball and run around with it. Like you still at junior school. So I'm going to go six out of ten.
MARK PAYNE 00:57:57
I would say it's closer to rugby . I remember playing this and…it's one of the hardest of course I can never remember. I played this in PE, right? I think it was one of those days. I don't know if you remember this when you played PE at school and, it would be raining. You're like, “Right. We're going to be in the gym today”. Like when it's really, really raining and the teacher went right, he was an ex Marine and he went “right. We're going to play Gaelic football”. None of us had ever played it before he gave us a ball. He didn't tell us any of the rules. So I don't know if I actually did play Gaelic football, but I remember getting absolutely decked halfway through the game. I'm coming home, like absolutely soaked and cold and in a lot of pain. So I've got a lot of respect for anyone that plays it professionally, just going to say,
OJ BORG 00:58:25
Well, I'm being slightly facetious. And of course there is skill involved and get it football. I'm just saying they are similar ish. Find the, the skills you would need in football and Gaelic football for me are very similar six out of 10. Raya?
RAYA HUBBELL 00:58:44
To be fair. If Gaelic football is sort of hard, as you say it is, it basically just got him set up to be able to do 231 caps for one of the biggest Premier League teams, because he had that sort of backbone to him, which, you know, ah, sometimes I struggle with footballers having, I'm going to be honest, I'm going to, I'm going to go five and a half out of 10
OJ BORG 00:59:14
Brutal. Um, what we got time for Mark one or two more will be saying?
MARK PAYNE 00:59:18
I reckon we've got time for two more. I just go through this one quickly because most people will know this name and the connection with motorsports he's one of the most recognisable multi-sport athletes. John Surtees is famously the first and only man to have won world titles on two wheels and four, he won multiple motorbike titles. Uh, he won the, I mean this spell of dominance, I didn't quite realise. So he, uh, won the 500 CC class, I think five times and the 350 CC class, like just about the same amount. First Man ever to win the Isle of Man TT three times and then went on to win a Formula One title as well. So I mean, pretty, pretty decent record as far as I go.
OJ BORG 00:59:56
Yeah, so what are the multi-sports?
MARK PAYNE 01:00:00
Motorcycling and Formula One.
OJ BORG 01:00:07
Pfft five out of 10
RAYA HUBBELL 01:00:08
Yeah. It's still just take a corner, you know, to take a corner.
OJ BORG 01:00:10
If you know where to brake, you know, nowhere to brake
RAYA HUBBELL 01:00:12
Totally with you bud
MARK PAYNE 01:00:15
I would say like Valentino, Rossi tried it, you know, it didn't exactly work out for him. There's been plenty of the tried and got nowhere near.
OJ BORG 01:00:21
No, but come on, we're not talking about a totally different sport. We're talking about things which are in the same hemisphere.
RAYA HUBBELL 01:00:28
I tend to agree with OJ here. But the other thing is, is I, again, I think it's that rowing scenario in the same vein, if you start off as a motorcyclist, which you have that inherent fear of danger, much more so than in a car, because you're not protected. If you've got the skill and motorcycling, I think they're much more transferable into car racing than, than the other way around.
OJ BORG 01:00:51
Yeah. Yeah. Five out of 10,
MARK PAYNE 01:01:00
We'll go into the last one because this last one is, is incredible just for the level at which it was competed at. Deion, Sanders arguably one of the best players ever to step on the, either in NFL, he was a Defensive Player of the Year, um, in the College Football and Pro Football Hall of Fame, an elite return money, he set the record for the most return touchdowns, defensive touchdowns in history. Uh, but at the same time was also playing Major League Baseball. And this isn't a point where Major League Baseball exists entirely in the NFL off season. They often overlapped. So in 1989, he became the first man ever to score a touchdown on a home run in the same week. And he's also the only man in history to play in a Super Bowl and the World Series.
OJ BORG 01:01:36
This is Deion Sanders. That's amazing because I thought the guy I was thinking of did something very similar and that's Bo Jackson because Bo Jackson was, I mean, there was an ESPN 30 for 30 about him, which I saw, but I watched it drunk. So I can't remember why. I just remember him me go. Wow. So granted like crying into a glass of rioja, but I can't. So yeah. Okay. Well, to be able to do both those things at that level is unbelievable, mainly because everyone who plays American football gets absolutely mashed up and everyone who plays baseball, I don't know, becomes champion spitters. So I'm going to say 10 out of 10
RAYA HUBBELL 01:02:20
So I, I grew up in North America, so love these two Sports so much. And I remember staying up, hang on.
OJ BORG 01:02:26
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. North America, but I thought you were Canadian?
RAYA HUBBELL 01:02:29
North America bud, North America.
OJ BORG 01:02:30
Well, its kind of just my favourite state of America. I love it. Okay.
RAYA HUBBELL 01:02:34
I know mine too. I remember like watching the world series as a kid staying up late because it had gone well past the ninth inning. And so yeah, to be able to do both again, like you said, OJ, it is not just about the fact that he's been able to do both. It's the fact that American football has put their body through so much. So to be able to cross over into the two Sports is pretty Epic, nine out of 10.
MARK PAYNE 01:02:58
Yeah. like you said Bo Jackson and him once played a game of baseball, they only ever met once professionally. Bo Jackson got three home runs in. Deion got one… but there will be more of this on the website. in the same place as last week. And if you, if you thought they were great and you want to find out more, there's some amazing ones on there. Chris Hoy, Tim Duncan…
OJ BORG 01:03:37
Chris, Chris Hoy I know where you're going to crush cyclist turned into rally racer. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna disagree with that. And I love Chris Hoy and I've met him and I've interviewed him and he is a true night of the realm. You know, if you define somebody who should be Sir Chris, he is that, but anyway he was amazing and the way he cycled and his thigh, you know, everything is true. A true, sir. But are we really going to say that his racing career makes him a successful second athlete?
MARK PAYNE 01:03:52
He went into Le Mans. It's fairly competitive, but yeah, if you want to find out the true backstory, some of these, there are some amazing backstories in there because some of them blew my mind. Like I'm not going to spoil it, but I will say read the Tim Duncan one because how he ended up leaving his first sport and ending up in the sport that he became so dominant in is quite an incredible story.
OJ BORG 01:04:15
Well done for teasing me. I'm now going to have to read it. She could have just told me anyway. It's been an absolute pleasure as always. Thank you too. Raya Hubbell,
RAYA HUBBELL 01:04:24
Thank you buddy. Thank you.
OJ BORG 01:04:29
Say, Hey, listen. When we shut up the, um, the Good Time Sports Club who's locking up tonight? Are you gonna do the shutters, put the chairs away. Who’s that going to be
RAYA HUBBELL 01:04:35
Yeah, that is well and truly you my friend.
OJ BORG 01:04:37
Fine. I'll sweep the floors. Thank you for all your great reviews so far. It's been great having you thank you for being part of it.
RAYA HUBBELL 01:04:42
The Good Time Sports Club is a Shocked Giraffe production and was presented by me. Raya Hubbell
OJ BORG 01:04:47
And me OJ Borg. Special thanks to our guests Marvin Sordell and Ollie Phillips.
RAYA HUBBELL 01:04:52
This show was produced by Mark Payne with additional production support by James Watkins until next time OJ. Bye.
OJ BORG 01:05:00
Bye.
